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ohbendy / Phake-Ramayana

The Phake Ramayana font is a traditional design based on manuscript forms. It supports Tai Phake, Tai Aiton, Tai Khamyang, Tai Turung and Tai Khamti languages.
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-au and sat #8

Closed ohbendy closed 3 years ago

ohbendy commented 3 years ago

Following our email discussion, I've moved the sickle shape to represent the -au vowel, and drawn a new glyph for the sat/killer. Left is -au, right is sat:

Screenshot 2021-06-01 at 11 02 05

That would suggest that this glyph is actually -au with anusvara and not sat with anusvara:

Screenshot 2021-06-01 at 11 03 40

These examples show that combination in real words:

Screenshot 2021-06-01 at 10 56 39 Screenshot 2021-06-01 at 10 55 23 Screenshot 2021-06-01 at 10 54 30

Could someone confirm if that's all correct?

ChowKensan commented 3 years ago

Yes, these are perfectly fine and lovely.

ohbendy commented 3 years ago

I notice we are not quite consistent yet:

Screenshot 2021-06-02 at 12 34 41

The new asat has a filled dot, the -a vowel has open dots, and the -ai vowel has no dot. @ChowKensan what is your preference? I feel like these should all be handled the same way unless there's a reason to keep them different.

StephenMorey commented 3 years ago

Yes, it is correct that in the traditional style, which we are trying to show in this font, that the -im symbol is a combination of AW + anusvara not sat + anusvara

ChowKensan commented 3 years ago

@ohbendy Yes, it is fine with me and it is according to the traditional style.

ohbendy commented 3 years ago

it is fine with me

Do you mean the current shapes are fine (inconsistent) or that "these should all be handled the same way" is fine?

ohbendy commented 3 years ago

I think I found a couple more examples of the -au vowel in David Wharton's PhD thesis about the Lik scripts, this time for Tai Neua and Tai Laing (aka Tai Naing or Shan-Ni) language manuscripts:

Screenshot 2021-06-27 at 11 43 32 Screenshot 2021-06-27 at 11 19 55

I'll see if he can confirm.

ChowKensan commented 3 years ago

it is fine with me

Do you mean the current shapes are fine (inconsistent) or that "these should all be handled the same way" is fine?

I mean the current shapes are fine.

ChowKensan commented 3 years ago

I think the sickle shaped -au vowel if it stands alone with the consonant (without a symbol at the bottom or in front of the consonant) then it should be read as “aü”. If I am not wrong, the third word of the first line in Tai Laing manuscript is written “chaü” (luk chaü li). In the third line, the fifth word is ”phaü” (sang phaü yang mi luk ying chaai). This can be also found in Tai manuscripts of India, but very rare.

StephenMorey commented 3 years ago

I agree that standing by itself in the manuscripts that we've looked at, it would be read as 'aü' (as Dr Banchob would have written it) or 'aɯ' as it might be written in IPA script. The equivalent character in Tai Ahom (11727) called AHOM VOWEL SIGN AW has the same function.

ohbendy commented 3 years ago

Closing this thread as I think we've concluded to use A9E5 for AU.