search

opencaching / opencaching-pl

The source code of Opencaching.PL (and some other domains)
https://opencaching.pl/
GNU General Public License v3.0
22 stars 33 forks source link

Contradictions in bicycle attribute #1244

Open following5 opened 7 years ago

following5 commented 7 years ago

@harrieklomp @andrixnet At OC.nl and OC.ro there are contradicting definitions of the "bicycle" attribute.

OC.nl:

OC.ro:

I think you should decide for one of both meanings. :-)

At OC.pl it is:

harrieklomp commented 7 years ago

Perhaps there could be made a standard English translation for all available attributes. This should include all attributes from all OC nodes. This could be placed on https://opencaching.eu/index.php/Cache_attributes or somewhere else. Each node can add their own translation. These translation can be used for databases and OKAPI

This is only a suggestion ;-)

following5 commented 7 years ago

We have standard translations for all attributes here in Okapi. But those may be wrong for the NL and RO "bicycle" attribute.

You must to decide what the meaning of this attribute is on your OC site. If it is "bicycle recommended", then a new Okapi attribute must be defined for that, which will have other meaning and translations than the PL attribute.

harrieklomp commented 7 years ago

If English translation and meaning in OKAPI is clear than all other translation should be the same. I can only suggest (personal opinion) to make a standard English text and every node should translate it like it is. We can make a useless discussions about the bike attribute or any other attribute but we must make a standard. If all English text in OKAPI are correct i will translate these in Dutch. I will use the same translations in database.

harrieklomp commented 7 years ago

Does any other node OCPL, OCUK, OCRO and (perhaps) OCUS agree with this?

following5 commented 7 years ago

If English translation and meaning in OKAPI is clear

The meaning in Okapi is not clear for the NL and RO "bicycle" attributes. The may have been wrongly added to A27.

Please decide what is the meaning of this attribute at OC.nl. Does it mean "accessible by bycycle" (like at OC.pl), or "bicycle recommended"? These are different things.

following5 commented 7 years ago

The bicycle attribute is the only one with this issue; all other are fine.

Look at http://www.opencaching.nl/okapi/devel/attrlist:

85: BIKE RECOMMENDED - A27 de: Fahrrad benötigt en: Bike recommended nl: Bereikbaar per fiets pl: Dostępna rowerem

The "BIKE RECOMMENDED" is just a copy of the English entry, it has no special meaning. Which one gives the correct meaning of your attribute 85: The DE+EN text or the NL+PL text?

andrixnet commented 7 years ago

Any place accessible by bicycle is accessible by foot, right? Although covering the distance may require more time by foot. Not all places accessible by bicycicle are accessible by car.

Thus IMO "recommending bicycle" makes little sense. Ok, there may be a bicycle lane nearby / on the way. But still. Read below.

Furthermore, there may be permission restrictions against bicycles. This is very well represented by Groundspeak attribute 32 "Bicycles allowed", mapped by OKAPI in acode A27 and PL/RO/NL attribute 85. I propose keeping this attribute as "Bicycles allowed" in english and modifying the OKAPI and OC translations accordingly.

following5 commented 5 years ago

There is the same problem with the "Boat" attribute, which is "Boat recommended" at some OC sites and "Boat required" at other.

following5 commented 5 years ago

Current naming of bike attribute in local languages:

OKAPI definitions are equivalent to "accessible by bike" for all these languages. So I think we should go for that.

Current naming of boat attribute in local languages:

OKAPI definitions are equivalent to "(usually) accessible only by boat". So I think we should go for "boat required" here.

following5 commented 5 years ago

In GC it is "Bicycles" and "Boat required". Looks like they also hat problems in defining the bike attribute.

following5 commented 5 years ago

@harrieklomp

I can only suggest (personal opinion) to make a standard English text and every node should translate it like it is.

Yeah, that was a good suggestion. These standard English texts are now in PR #1852.

andrixnet commented 5 years ago

On the semantics of these attributes I think the following:

It is both an accesibility and permission attribute.

example 1: path through the forest, you can ride your bike on it vs path through forest that is steep, is rocky, has fallen trees, it is impractical to ride a bycicle there. example 2: city, a park where bycicles are allowed (some paths or entire park) vs park where bycicles are forbidden.

I would add: