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Set custom donation/contribution tip based on percentage and not just fixed dollar/euro amount #6252

Open CaptainStack opened 1 year ago

CaptainStack commented 1 year ago

User story

As a donor, I can set a custom platform tip percentage so that I can make my tip bigger/smaller based on donation size but am not limited to 10%, 15%, 20%. I'd love to be able to set a 1-5% tip for Open Collective. As a Collective admin, I'd love to be able to set the standard/suggested tip to a custom percentage the same way I can set the default suggested donation amount.

Best solution for this problem

This would look like an additional dropdown + number input. There is already a custom amount option so there just needs to be a way to set it to a percentage rather than a fixed dollar amount.

MVP

A dropdown for % vs $ next to the amount input box.

Metrics

How many people use the feature is the best indication of need/demand/impact

Documentation

Some documents might need to be updated to explain the feature so people know about it and are comfortable using it. Some in-page explanation/UI will likely encourage its use.

Triage Template (team only) This template is for members of the team to triage for prioritisation. For more guidance see https://www.loom.com/share/369ab467fbc64dec848085d38ff57ca0: P1 high frequency, high impact P2 low frequency, high impact P3 high frequency, low impact P4 low frequency, low impact Examples of high impact - a problem affects users during an essential process (expenses and payments > onboarding and registration > contributing) with no workaround. High frequency - >10% of users affected (measured as a proportion of total potential users for this case).
Betree commented 1 year ago

Hi @CaptainStack, you can pick "Other" in the drop-down, then set any amount you wish to contribute: Screenshot_20221227-214437.png

CaptainStack commented 1 year ago

@Betree Yes you can, but you cannot set that custom amount to a custom percentage like say 1%. The lowest amount you can donate based on percentage is 10% as one of the fixed dropdown options, but if you wanted to donate a custom amount based on percentage you'd have to convert to dollars/euros first.

Betree commented 1 year ago

It seems relatively easy and clear to me, but forwarding the feedback to @opencollective/design in case they want to integrate something for the next contribution flow iteration. Thank you!

CaptainStack commented 1 year ago

My only other thought is that when you set up a donation tier you cannot set the default Open Collective tip. I believe it defaults to 15%. The closet you can come to setting another default value here is to modify the query parameters in the URL, which I consider a hack, albeit a relatively nice to have and easy to use one.

While I am very happy to contribute to Open Collective, and am even very happy to see what strikes me as a relatively high and strong default, I do ultimately think the default tip should be configurable by the collective admin (in both fixed dollars/euros or as a percentage of the contribution). Just my opinion!

Thank you so much for the fast and high quality engagement on this issue. I hope it is a small and straightforward change and I do believe many people will use it!

Betree commented 1 year ago

Could be resolved by https://github.com/opencollective/opencollective/issues/4897

gusaus commented 1 year ago

My only other thought is that when you set up a donation tier you cannot set the default Open Collective tip. I believe it defaults to 15%. The closet you can come to setting another default value here is to modify the query parameters in the URL, which I consider a hack, albeit a relatively nice to have and easy to use one.

The problem with 'not' being able to set the default tip is it could be perceived as misleading or not worth all the fees (compared to other platforms) to consumers/customers of certain types of groups (such as nonprofits).

For instance, OpenProducer is/was planning on using its collective to process everything from tax deductible donations, sponsorships, ticket sales, and a variety of services. To the consumer/donor, the platform tip looks like an additional fee being passed on to them on top of the advertised/quoted price.

For example what looks to be a monthly sponsorship at $100/month....

Contribute to OpenProducer - Open Collective 2023-01-04 13-59-41

...defaults to a $115/month charge

Contribute to OpenProducer - Open Collective 2023-01-04 13-45-30

As @CaptainStack noted, we can set the default to "No Thank You" by modifying the query parameters in an embed URL, but that could introduce further confusion/distrust if sponsors/donors are paying a different price via the collective tier.

As noted in our ongoing Slack discussion on the topic, this is probably less of an issue for supporters of open source projects (hosted by https://opencollective.com/opensource) - that said, it doesn't even look like OSC collectives default to a platform tip (let alone provide a way to set some options). https://opencollective.com/mautic/contribute/usd100-month-20890/checkout https://opencollective.com/obsproject/contribute/silver-sponsor-8101/checkout?interval=month&amount=750 https://opencollective.com/phpfoundation/contribute/backers-34283/checkout?interval=month&amount=5

If the default tip is only applicable to OCF hosted collectives, I understand the previous (and unresolved concerns) in https://github.com/opencollective/opencollective/issues/4268

gusaus commented 1 year ago

It looks our OCF hosted collectives no longer have the ability to modify the query parameters in the URL. So basically...as I tried to point out in https://github.com/opencollective/opencollective/issues/6252#issuecomment-1371332212 we're locked into passing an additional charge to donors, sponsors, ticket buyers, and other customers that will have no idea what Open Collective is.

Am I missing something or is the 15% default tip something that OCF collectives need to pass on to their customers and run the risk of misleading them?

znarf commented 1 year ago

Platform Tips are part of Open Collective business model and are essential to the platform's sustainability. It's not possible to consider turning that off without an alternative revenue model.

BenJam commented 1 year ago

this is probably less of an issue for supporters of open source projects (hosted by https://opencollective.com/opensource)

Open Source Collective doesn't have platform tips enabled because we share half our revenue with Open Collective Inc. on every transaction. Open Collective Foundation doesn't charge a fee on credit card donations and Open Collective Inc. adds the tip element on those transactions only.

I thought that would be useful context 👍

gusaus commented 1 year ago

@BenJam @znarf I appreciate the additional context from the platform/engineering side. My one thought/recommendation as a longtime, active community member/contributor is... had I known 1) this was only an issue with OCF collectives (not sure about self-hosted); 2) people like myself, @CaptainStack, and probably several others wouldn't have the ability adjust the default (not eliminate the tip) so not to fool/mislead our customers (and their customers) after being called out for 'abusing' the system... I would not have switched one collective from OSC to OCF and onboarded two others.

As an OCF customer, I have to admit (which I've done in the same Slack discussion and parallel one in #ocf) that I feel like this should have been brought up as a potential red flag during preliminary vetting discussions where we were very clear about our use cases (some examples here) and supporters.

Platform Tips are part of Open Collective business model and are essential to the platform's sustainability. It's not possible to consider turning that off without an alternative revenue model.

Putting my community hat back on, I totally understand and have tried to be very proactive in terms of enabling community contributions (code and funds). But as an OCF customer, the platform (in its current state) is now unusable so we may need to reevaluate OCF as a host and if/how we'll use the platform.

Open Source Collective doesn't have platform tips enabled because we share half our revenue with Open Collective Inc. on every transaction. Open Collective Foundation doesn't charge a fee on credit card donations and Open Collective Inc. adds the tip element on those transactions only.

I feel like this is a missed opportunity since most OSC collectives (and their supporters) understand that Open Collective is open source, would have no problems with the tip (at least being available), and would be more likely to tip!

Thinking about this now... after getting more and more feedback from y'all and other collective/team members. I'd strongly recommend the tip be available across all hosts and we give the collective admins the ability to set the defaults on a per/tier basis. Pretty sure @CaptainStack has already done a much better job describing the functionality in this issue and the Slack discussions. In the short term, could you please give us back the ability to set the default to "No Thank You" by modifying the query parameters in an embed URL? All the people/collectives I'm aware of are doing this for their customers while at the same time are extremely aware and supportive of the need to help contribute and sustain the Open Collective platform and team.

BenJam commented 1 year ago

I would not have switched one collective from OSC

Just to play this out: your $100 credit card donation through Open Source Collective would have attracted a $10 fee from Open Source Collective, $5 of which Open Source Collective pays to Open Collective Inc. so you're net $90 (ignoring payment processor costs). A $100 credit card donation through Open Collective Foundation attracts no fee, you get $100, and the user can decide to accept the optional tip. It's their choice.

There's a bit of history and a statistical outcome that's important here. Three years ago, Open Collective Inc. changed its pricing to allow hosts that do not charge fees to use the platform for free. Platform tips were introduced around this time to enable Open Collective Inc. to recoup some of the cost of keeping the platform free for these users.

Why the 15% default? Well, after some experimentation, we found that 15% was the point at which Open Collective Inc. would cover the cost of providing the platform for free to these hosts. Last month 55% of users accepted a tip, averaging to a 7.6% tip on just over 3,000 eligible contributions. As you can see this is a close (but, importantly, optional) match to the amount Open Source Collective pays Open Collective Inc. on every transaction.

So, there it is, tips keep the platform free for hosts that do not charge fees and the default is set to 15% tip because this is the default that covers the cost of keeping the platform free.

OSC collectives (and their supporters) understand that Open Collective is open source, would have no problems with the tip (at least being available), and would be more likely to tip!

The philosophy applied here is that we don't accept tips on transactions that Open Collective Inc. already benefits from. We may experiment with switching to platform tips in the future but, for the moment at least, we're happy supporting Open Collective Inc. as we are.

gusaus commented 1 year ago

First off, I appreciate all the continued detail and as a 'Community Contributor group' member I'm hopeful I'll have the opportunity to contribute and help sustain the platform.

As a customer setting up to go all-in with Open Collective, OpenProducer simply can't and won't run the risk of misleading our customers, clients, and supporters by selling a sponsorship/donation/service tier at quoted price and then:

We were OSC hosted and simply would not have applied to OCF if we'd known about these potential issues. I'd say this is an edge case, but I'm seeing more and more music/arts/media orgs hosted by OCF and I can't imagine we're the only ones who share these fears and concerns.

Similar situation with the Drupal Contribution collective we just brought online. I would have recommended OSC and am very concerned that several other OCF hosted Drupal collectives (like these event-related ones) are or could run similar issues.

With Drupal beginning to enable funding tools on Drupal sites (including drupal.org), I'd imagine most would either use OSC or another platform/tool (internal or external).

I'd imagine there could similar dynamic/dilemma with an even larger open source project/economy and OCF hosted community collective.

Unlike Drupal (which for a variety of reasons was an early adopter), WordPress hasn't embraced Open Collective as a tool to sustain). I'd assume having to explain these issues won't help with the already steep learning curve.

These issues would be resolved by making the tip behavior available and consistent across all hosts. More projects and orgs would adopt (and use!) Open Collective = more contributors and funds to sustain the (open source) Open Collective platform and team.

gusaus commented 1 year ago

These issues would be resolved by making the tip behavior available and consistent across all hosts.

Let's just say this was possible. In addition to giving collective admins the ability to set default tips for each tier... what if they could hide or disable in exchange for paying a platform fee (similar to these folks)?

If you try to make a donation on their demo, you'll see they also provide good inspiration for donors/supporters covering the fees.

Butter World 2023-01-17 00-51-31

If we can put more control in the hands of the collective admins and their customers, I think revenue will go up and support time will go down.

gusaus commented 1 year ago

I don't want to stray too far off the goal of the issue (providing more control on the platform side) but the reason this is now such a big deal is how the platform team interpreted and reacted to an undocumented 'embed' use case (but publically inquired/discussed) without taking into consideration customers clear concerns about how this could affect their ability to sustain.

So in addition to causing large collectives/projects/revenue generators to rethink their hosting options (or usage of Open Collective), they also need to explore integration (for example via this Drupal module/addon https://www.drupal.org/project/funding) or use third-party tools/platforms as a workaround for these new limitations.

Rather than causing additional disruption and overhead for those affected, ideally we could enable community contributors (via this OSC hosted collective) to help with the following:

Would this be possible?

gusaus commented 1 year ago

After a bit more follow-up w/ Mike in #ocf :raised_hands: I think the best path forward (at least for OCF collectives I'm part of/supporting/advising) is to use (or continue to use) external platforms for fundraising (some examples here) and adhere to their fee structure for these types of transactions.

At the same time our OSC hosted contributor collective (if enabled) can help with some of the tasks outlined at the bottom of https://github.com/opencollective/opencollective/issues/6252#issuecomment-1385812818.

gusaus commented 1 year ago

Here's another example of a platform that allows users to set defaults. It's to cover the fees, so not exactly the same. Still think something like https://github.com/opencollective/opencollective/issues/6252#issuecomment-1384886976 that enables admins options on setting or hiding defaults (for a fee) would enable them best serve their customers/supporters while increasing revenue to sustain the platform/team (if the tip was also an option on OSC collectives).

Admin Edit | OpenProducer Page 1 | OpenProducer | RevEngine 2023-01-26 16-23-33

Donate form Join | News Revenue Hub 2023-01-26 16-28-55

Betree commented 1 year ago

@gusaus These comments are off-topic with the original issue, let's move this discussion elsewhere.

We will not bring back the platform tip parameter in the contribution flow, it's unfair to other collective admins (who are not tech-savvy enough to integrate an embedded flow with the tips disabled) and unfair to the Open Collective platform. More details at https://github.com/opencollective/opencollective/issues/6376.

We do acknowledge that if you link directly outside of the "Step details" in the contribution flow, contributors won't be offered the ability to customize the tip, and that can be perceived as a hidden fee. We've documented https://github.com/opencollective/opencollective/issues/6377 to discuss and find a solution that will be fair for everyone.

gusaus commented 1 year ago

We do acknowledge that if you link directly outside of the "Step details" in the contribution flow, contributors won't be offered the ability to customize the tip, and that can be perceived as a hidden fee. We've documented https://github.com/opencollective/opencollective/issues/6377 to discuss and find a solution that will be fair for everyone.

Is #6377 specific to the embed or also evaluating solutions that customers/collective admins could control?