Sustenance

[BuildAndDie]

@brianfeister This got buried I am sure, but you had talked with palorin and some of the mods about creating a boon or feat that allows things like water breathing, surviving in space, surviving in teh fire plane, that sort of thing.

Couldn't find where we had written it down anywhere, curious if you remember it, and if that was still a plan.

Sustenance/Ward/Endure (a few suggesttions from Eli)

[EliManthey]

Honestly I think bolster+attribute rolls can cover this if but if a boon seems necessary I'm down.

[EliManthey]

As names go I actually dislike my examples as sustenance implies food or water or some form of gaining energy. Ward implies physical defense. Endure sounds off and doesn't fit with the theme of the boon.

[EliManthey]

To give a few examples you could survive on the plane of fire by bolstering fortitude or protection and making an attribute roll, water breathing seems really alteration based to me and generic rolls, shapeshift, or even creative use of barrier can do this. as for surviving in space protection or creation would work well, once again a creative use of barrier, or in most space settings space survival would be covered by your equipment.

[palorin]

So I brought this topic up for a few reasons. Yes we could easily do Attribute rolls (which was my initial suggestion of "When is a Boon not a Boon?"). However, with the release of Extraordinary Items, the idea of a spacesuit, or an amulet of Planar Travel, or a Ring of Waterbreathing all popped into my head. And then I realized I couldn't make those items because there went a Boon comparable for it

[EliManthey]

Just add a special property to them

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 1:45 PM, palorin notifications@github.com wrote:

So I brought this topic up for a few reasons. Yes we could easily do Attribute rolls (which was my initial suggestion of "When is a Boon not a Boon?"). However, with the release of Extraordinary Items, the idea of a spacesuit, or an amulet of Planar Travel, or a Ring of Waterbreathing all popped into my head. And then I realized I couldn't make those items because there went a Boon comparable for it

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-- Eli

[palorin]

I also like the idea of a Cleric of (insert pirate deity) granting Water Breathing to his crew to do some crazy Pirates of the Caribbean under the boat style attack.

[EliManthey]

Either creation for bubble helmets or shape shift...

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 1:46 PM, palorin notifications@github.com wrote:

I also like the idea of a Cleric of (insert pirate deity) granting Water Breathing to his crew to do some crazy Pirates of the Caribbean under the boat style attack.

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-- Eli

[palorin]

If we want to add pure attribute rolls without a Boon, that's fine, although I would suggest it as an example on Protection or Creation for players to use as Boonless benefits. When reading some of the Discord topics, and talking to players I'm trying to get into OpenLegend, there is a misconception occasionally that Boons/Banes are the ONLY ways to get results.

Maybe a short section of Bane/Boon-less Attribute uses would be handy somewhere? I know that the Fail section has some of that. Maybe that's enough.

[EliManthey]

chapter 2 is full of examples...re-read that section

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 1:55 PM, palorin notifications@github.com wrote:

If we want to add pure attribute rolls without a Boon, that's fine, although I would suggest it as an example on Protection or Creation for players to use as Boonless benefits. When reading some of the Discord topics, and talking to players I'm trying to get into OpenLegend, there is a misconception occasionally that Boons/Banes are the ONLY ways to get results.

Maybe a short section of Bane/Boon-less Attribute uses would be handy somewhere? I know that the Fail section has some of that. Maybe that's enough.

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-- Eli

[palorin]

Okay, last question, which is ultimately why this all came about on discord: Boons typically need to a sustain action for them to stick around. (At this point this is merely a rules/style question, so bear with me).

That being said, let's say Eli, Brian and Moustache are players in my game, and you're told that you need to go down into the ocean to Atlantis to find the Amulet of Plot Development. This means you have breathing issues and water pressure issues, quite possibly for hours or days at a time.

Going with your suggestion of Bolster or just attribute rolls (either in okay with, Resistance is another suggestion that was given), how does sustaining a non-boon work? Should it be an issue? Using Resistance to negate the environment could work, but requires continuous Sustaining. Bolster is a one roll boost. The use of ONLY an attribute and your imagination is awesome but the time frame might make not needing to sustain unfair.

Someone shapeshifting into a fish to travel still needs to sustain. Just some thoughts I had. I'm interested to see Eli's take especially. Someone

[EliManthey]

That would be up to the gm, and for me personally I would never put players in that situation as you get what I call an ability locked quest(another example is a quest or goal that requires flight) why, as a gm, would I lock out players from something I know they can't do. Should this situation become necessary I would do one of two things. 1: the successful attribute roll lasts without a sustain until the player dispels it(but I would fail forward by allowing the water breathing to succeed with an unknown time limit). 2: require multiple rolls over the course of the adventure.(still no sustain)

[palorin]

That makes sense and that was my initial suggestion in Discord, but meant dissenting opinions, which is where the Boon idea came about.

"They are more like guidelines anyway" is a nice way to view attribute only uses. Sustainless benefits should be story driven and not mechanically driven.

[EliManthey]

yep. I feel like to make a player use a sustain to maintain something required for the story is counter productive and not fun. I still do the attribute roll however to determine phenomenal success or failure that I can use to drive the story forward.

[BuildAndDie]

Boons and Banes are just an easy way to see how to implement attribute rolls and clearly see the corresponding CR. They help non-creative players see the ways to do things they might not have thought of before. Unfortunately it sometimes does the opposite and restricts thought or gives tunnel vision.

[EliManthey]

All the mods gotta get together and do something about no one utilizing attribute rolls.

[istabosz]

Yea, I would leave this sort of thing simply to attribute rolls. I believe Chapter 2 has a few examples of this exact sort of situation.

We can't create a boon for everything. Otherwise, we run into the problem that D&D tends to create: if you've only got these 4 buttons to push, then you can't do anything else.

[EliManthey]

:)

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 3:03 PM, istabosz notifications@github.com wrote:

Yea, I would leave this sort of thing simply to attribute rolls. I believe Chapter 2 has a few examples of this exact sort of situation.

We can't create a boon for everything. Otherwise, we run into the problem that D&D tends to create: if you've only got these 4 buttons to push, then you can't do anything else.

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-- Eli

[palorin]

Hear hear! I keep meaning to get back into writing on my tumblr. Maybe a good article for there/Mightybell would be good for this

[brianfeister]

Ok, I'm a bit surprised just because I had in mind to specify it so that people could think about how having Alteration / Protection / Energy might create a buffer against the elements, etc.

But anyway, I'm fine with not adding it.

[Hassurunous]

Adding it or not adding I think is fine either way. It would be nice to have some explicit method with explicit wording/ruling about how one would utilize this sort of effect, but it's probably fine to leave it out. Tough, if we leave it out we should probably add examples about using Attribute roll non-conventionally like this.

[EliManthey]

i think that should be considered whether we add it or not

On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 10:00 PM, Michael Loubier notifications@github.com wrote:

Adding it or not adding I think is fine either way. It would be nice to have some explicit method with explicit wording/ruling about how one would utilize this sort of effect, but it's probably fine to leave it out. Tough, if we leave it out we should probably add examples about using Attribute roll non-conventionally like this.

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-- Eli

[Hassurunous]

True enough. Maybe I should get back to writing that article. @palorin beat me to the punch with the Attributes article. Haven't had a chance to read it yet, but that will probably be my coffee reading.

[istabosz]

@Hassurunous Regarding examples of using attribute rolls like this, the following are from chapter 2. Did you have something else in mind? I guess I'm having trouble understanding what you mean by using attribute rolls non-conventionally. Attribute rolls are meant to perform an action that logically fits with the attribute. So, any time you are doing that, you're following conventions. Some actions are explicitly laid out with a bane, boon, or other micro-rule (like jumping). But for other situations, like these ones, it's up to the GM to determine the CR and outcome.

CHALLENGING TEST OF FORTITUDE (CR 15) Sheriff Bates and his posse of deputies are tracking a pair of bandits through the desert. In an effort to make up for lost time, they attempt to double march despite the blazing heat. The GM calls for a Fortitude roll to resist the harsh cruelties of the desert. Success with a twist: Those who fail their roll are able to keep up with the rest of the crew, but they suffer one level of the fatigued bane. Failure, but the story progresses: Everyone who fails simply cannot keep up. If they don’t rest, they will assuredly pass out. The posse must make a tough decision: make camp and risk the bandits escaping, or split up the party to let the hardier members cover ground.

HEROIC TEST OF CREATION (CR 20) Therilas is attempting to lead a party of refugees safely through the Decaying Desert. Were he in the woods, the druid could easily forage enough food and water to keep them alive. Lost in the desert, however, he is forced to use his magic to summon forth sustenance for the desperate masses. Success with a twist: The only way that Therilas is able to harness enough energy to feed so many people is to draw on his own life reserves. The GM rules that he suffers one level of the fatigued bane. Failure, but the story progresses: Unfortunately, despite his best efforts, Therilas can only create half of the food and water that it would take to adequately sustain the refugees. Half of them won’t survive the journey without further intervention.

HEROIC TEST OF PROTECTION (CR 20) Star and her platoon pilot their mechanized combat suits through the wastelands of Primus, the first moon of New Terra. During the their week-long trek, one of Primus’ much-feared corrosive acid clouds settles over the soldiers, threatening to slowly eat away at their armor. The GM asks each PC what they are doing to protect their mechs, and Star decides to use her Protection attribute to activate her suit’s enviro shields to ward off the acid. Success with a twist: Star’s enviro shield does the trick, but the acid storm is so strong that she is forced to reroute power from her mech’s combat defenses in order to maintain the shield. As long as she keeps her enviro shield up, Star’s max HP is reduced by 5. Failure, but the story progresses: Star’s enviro shield just wasn’t meant for such prolonged exposure to corrosive matter of this level. After three days in the acid cloud, her mech’s hull is severely corroded, reducing her Armor bonus by 3 until it can be repaired.

[Hassurunous]

@istabosz: We were talking in Discord about some nonconventional "flavorings" of Attributes recently, including one person who started to design a character that was essentially a "snake master" that would use, for example, a pit viper thrown at his opponents to flavor his Entropy attacks. That's what I meant by unconventional. Sorry there wasn't more context here. XD

The examples in Chapter 2 are fantastic and I really love the stories each example tells. So glad to have that section now! 😄

[brianfeister]

There are two examples in Chapter 2 that do exactly what is being requested here:

---

Heroic Test of Protection (CR 20)

Star and her platoon pilot their mechanized combat suits through the wastelands of Primus, the first moon of New Terra. During the their week-long trek, one of Primus' much-feared corrosive acid clouds settles over the soldiers, threatening to slowly eat away at their armor. The GM asks each PC what they are doing to protect their mechs, and Star decides to use her Protection attribute to activate her suit's enviro shields to ward off the acid.

Success with a twist: Star's enviro shield does the trick, but the acid storm is so strong that she is forced to reroute power from her mech's combat defenses in order to maintain the shield. As long as she keeps her enviro shield up, Star's max HP is reduced by 5.

Failure, but the story progresses: Star's enviro shield just wasn't meant for such prolonged exposure to corrosive matter of this level. After three days in the acid cloud, her mech's hull is severely corroded, reducing her Armor bonus by 3 until it can be repaired.

---

Challenging Test of Energy (CR 15)

Asger and Hertha have trekked long and hard through the frozen Fjords of the Titans, and as night falls they manage to take shelter in a cave before the midnight winds drop the temperature to deadly levels. Still, the cave is cold, and though Asger starts a meager fire to keep them warm, Hertha attempts to use her fire magic to maintain and multiply the heat so that they can both rest peacefully.

Success with a twist: Hertha's spell works, though the cold is stronger than she realized. In order to maintain the magic throughout the night, she must sacrifice a component of minor value to empower her charm. With the GM's approval, Hertha decides to melt down her golden bracelet to power the spell.

Failure, but the story progresses: Asger's fire is enough to keep them from freezing to death, but without Hertha's magic, they are still quite frostbitten and exhausted by the morning. Both PCs suffer one level of the fatigue bane.