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Source text / code for Open Legend RPG
http://www.openlegendrpg.com/
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Ferocious Minions prerequisites #439

Closed MarkVelthuis closed 7 years ago

MarkVelthuis commented 7 years ago

I noticed that this feat now also works for "Summon Creature". The prerequisite at this moment however is only influence. In my opinion the banes and boons associated with influence aren't realy fitting with that of a summoner type character. I would like to suggest presence as possible requisite for this particular feat since it fits better with characters using leadership and inspiration to lead their minions.

brianfeister commented 7 years ago

Good catch, updating to the following:

Ferocious Minions (I - III)

oconnor0 commented 7 years ago

Not Presence 3/5/7 as well?

I could see Deception and Persuasion being the means by which a charmed creature acts extra ferocious.

brianfeister commented 7 years ago

@oconnor0 Not in this case. You have to have the invoking attribute, and deception and persuasion aren't among them

brianfeister commented 7 years ago

I've simplified it to just be the following, since attribute 3 is not sufficient to invoke the Summon Creature boon at all

Ferocious Minions (I - III)

ucffool commented 7 years ago

I think I'll need to update the display filter to include the new wording, Invoking Attribute to get ready for when this is pushed. Actually, now that i think about it further @brianfeister for the purposes of filtering, this simplified version is fine for the print edition or maybe even the website, but horrible for the YML. It makes it impossible to filter 'feats I have the prerequisite for' because it is dependent on something else... I can't think of the word.

I recommend being explicit.

brianfeister commented 7 years ago

it makes it impossible to filter 'feats I have the prerequisite for' because it is dependent on something else... I can't think of the word.

Agreed @ucffool. I'm a bit myopically focused on print edition stuff right now, but that's a good point and it had floated through my head before. Will definitely make it explicit in the YML

MarkVelthuis commented 7 years ago

Interesting change. I was told the reason the actual summon creature invoking attributes weren't used for this feat because it would be particularly powerfull (compared to charm and dominate). Which is why I suggested presence instead of any of the invoking attributes.

As for the invoking attribute requiring at least 4 due to summon creature needing at least that much to be invoked, this is not the case for the charm/dominate banes (these have a minimum of 3).

brianfeister commented 7 years ago

@MarkVelthuis I had considered that this was SUPER powerful as I was reviewing it, however, the conclusion I came to is that summon creature requires invocation just like charmed and dominated do. The notable difference is Boon Focus (Summon Creature), so in that case the bonus applies without a chance of failure. But that's only for a single creature, with very low HP, so that seems clearly balanced against dominated targeted on a bear or something.

The place where this gets really broken is the build that takes: Boon Focus (Summon Creature) + Multi-Target Boon Specialist II + Multi-Target Boon Expert + Superior Concentration II

That's a long road to get there (have to be at least 5th level to take all of the above and also Ferocious Minions I), and I feel like by 5th level, I can find alot of degenerate and broken things happening in many of the builds if I'm looking for them.

MarkVelthuis commented 7 years ago

Thanks for the clear explenation.

What about the change from tier 1 now requiring an attribute of 4 while the charm and dominate banes require just 3 ?

brianfeister commented 7 years ago

Nah, we're good, thanks