Closed balshetzer closed 6 years ago
I was talking to Mirabai about this, and volunteered to investigate.
Palantype has ~29 keys, it would require very deep changes, I think. Sounds exciting :) do you use a palantype?
I've received a Palantype protocol spec from A Shadowy And Mysterious Source and will be sending it on to you today, Marn. Apparently it shouldn't be too hard to implement! Also, a testing machine might be forthcoming soon. Fingers crossed. On Sep 28, 2015 1:44 AM, "Ted Morin" notifications@github.com wrote:
Palantype has ~29 keys, it would require very deep changes, I think. Sounds exciting :) do you use a palantype?
— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/openstenoproject/plover/issues/53#issuecomment-143645333 .
Exciting news! LMK if/when you need my mailing address.
Because of plover, I was able to create a couple custom chorded keyboards I wanted to try (one using only thu 4-9 keys of the keypad). I was thinking about making a program for arbitrary chorded keyboards and then realized it makes much more sense to just add a different engine type to plover. Then anyone who wanted to make a custom chord system for their NKRO keyboard could just specify the relationships.
On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 11:20 AM, Thomas Thurman notifications@github.com wrote:
Exciting news! LMK if/when you need my mailing address.
— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/openstenoproject/plover/issues/53#issuecomment-143833196 .
@stenoknight What happened about the palantype? I don't seem to have received it.
Jason never got back to me after I offered to give him your mailing address. :'/
Sorry about that. I think he must have just dropped the ball. I'll ping him again.
On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 2:31 PM, Thomas Thurman notifications@github.com wrote:
@stenoknight https://github.com/stenoknight What happened about the stenotype? I don't seem to have received it.
— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/openstenoproject/plover/issues/53#issuecomment-170100583 .
Mirabai Knight, CRC, RDR StenoKnight CART Services 917 576 4989 mkk@stenoknight.com http://stenoknight.com
An actual palantype machine has been found and will be on its way to me soon.
@chajadan, I'd be interested in seeing anything you've already come up with.
I think this issue contains a number of sub-issues:
Sanity check? If that makes sense, I'll raise separate issues.
These are the stenotype features I assume hold for palantype as well; I've emailed this list to Georgina to check: 1) it's operated by pressing chords of one or more keys simultaneously 2) the keys must all be released for the chord to be considered complete 3) there is a standard way to write down a chord 4) we are primarily concerned with producing English-language text here 5) there is some sort of consensus on what many of the chords mean, and there is a dictionary of these chords available for newbies (where "dictionary" means a mapping of chords to what they represent) 6) some chords are "briefs" and produce an entire word or more, of arbitrary complexity 7) some chords produce standard prefixes or suffixes, or punctuation or symbols 8) there is one particular chord used for correcting mistakes 9) but in general a chord represents a syllable in a systematic way, and the dictionary is used to combine these syllables into English words
I've edited the sample code in the post because the formatting made it hard to understand. It's actually relatively simple. I think I could get a Palantype "machine" going in a couple hours working with someone who has a machine. @tthurman does the edited code make more sense to you? Also, can we link the dictionary that Samuel sent you to the issue?
Seems to me like the bit flipping and reordering logic and all that is unnecessary. We can just act on the bytes themselves and assemble a list of keys like in treal.py:
# Note that in the returned data, 0 means the key is down, 1 means it is up.
byte_layout = (
('M-', '+2-', '+1-', 'H-', 'T-', 'P-', 'S-', 'C-'),
('-A', 'E-', 'O-', 'Y-', 'L-', 'N-', 'R-', 'F-'),
('-M', '-C', '-L', '-N', '-^2' '-^1', 'I', '-U'),
('', '-S', '-H', '-+', '-T', '-P', '-R', '-F'),
)
# The Palantype layout
'''
P- M- N- -N -M -P
C- T- F- L- -L -F -T -H
S- H- R- Y- O- I -A -C -R -+ -S
+1- +2- E- I -U -^1 -^2
'''
Seems that, functionally, +1 and +2 both map to "+-" and -^1 and -^2 both map to "-^". It's kind of like the number bar in steno where they split it apart to be easier to hit.
Samuel Belli sent me a Palantype dictionary, as promised. Here it is, in .dix format.
Can anyone covert .dix to JSON or RTF? I've played around building a converter in tha past, but the format is undocumented. I could probably finish it if I could get hold of a .dix file along with the JSON or RTF equivalent. Maybe I'll open another issue about that?
Palantype, just as an FYI has no prepackaged theory + dictionary like say , Phoenix our StenEd.
Not that I'm aware of anyway. Most Palan Jedi that I know built their own dictionary and created their own shortforms.
So there is only one theory, it allows you to write virtually any word but has a limited dictionary.
So apparently the bytes are close to palanorder:
SCPTH+MFRNLYOEAUI^NLCMFRPT+SH
versus the protocol's CSPTH++MFRNLYOEAUI^^NLCMFRPT+HS
Of note: there's no number bar. Everything is a dictionary. I don't have the number strokes yet but I know how to generate them if need be.
I got Samuel to convert the dictionary to RTF, which I think we should use as a base for now. It seems that the Palantype doesn't have standard "theories" like steno. Rather, the number of keys allows for all sounds to come out of each hand through certain combinations, and it's up to the student to develop their own briefs and shortcuts from there.
@SamuelBelli and I had good luck tonight! We got his Palantype working with Plover relatively easily thanks to @benoit-pierre's refactoring of the code base to make systems possible.
Here's the branch I was working on: https://github.com/morinted/plover/tree/palantype
And here's a sample build for Palantype users. They will need to remove the main dictionaries and replace them with RTF exports of their existing dictionaries.
Seems to be working so far.
Will continue to test but seems ok so far
Morning all. So plover for palan is working well. The only issue I can see is in dictionary, you can only look up words using steno, you can't type in "before" for example and it give you all corresponding matches. You can only search by inputting raw steno. "PFOR"
Here's my QWERTY to palan mapping
I made a vector of the layout proper:
That's perfect !
Here's a visualization of palan order
http://openstenoproject.org/palantype is now up with a tiny guide on how the Palantype works.
Most recently, I've moved this into a system & machine plugin: https://github.com/morinted/plover_palantype_system
@SamuelBelli has been using it for a couple days now
This is released as a plugin now in the Plover weeklies.
Henry writes: