Add preset for `natural=shrubbery`

vincentvd1 commented 2 years ago

I would like to see natural=shrubbery to be added as a preset. The tag has the status in use and is already used more than 4000 times

https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/natural=shrubbery#overview

matkoniecz commented 2 years ago

note that this tag is quite controversial and was rejected twice in wiki vote ( https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/shrubbery )

It does not disqualify it, but it really should be mentioned when proposing to add it to presets

ZeLonewolf commented 2 years ago

This tag is now being supported by a major vector tile renderer, OpenMapTiles. Support for natural=shrubbery was added to OpenMapTiles in openmaptiles/openmaptiles#1397.

In addition, according to taginfo, the tag enjoys considerable organic popularity and growth, even without it being present as an iD preset:

I would support this tag being added to the presets despite the wiki votes, as there is a clear mapper preference for adding the tag.

natural=shrubbery solves a real mapping problem that isn't addressed by other tags such as natural=scrub, landuse=grass, landuse=flowerbed, etc. We should recognize the ongoing organic support for this tag with a supporting preset.

maro-21 commented 6 months ago

I support. 42,226 uses now.

tordans commented 6 months ago

I read the proposal-statement, scrubery wiki page and some of the discussion on the scrub wiki page. I think the question if this preset can be included should be mainly be made based on if the re-definition (change or at least modified / narrowed meaning) of natural=scrub (to only be unmaintained scrubs) has reached a status where we don't attract too much unwanted discussion on this here.

My understanding of the guidelines that Martin has for including tags here is, to have the tags officially voted/accepted. In rare cases it is enough for them to be in a state that has been rolled out ("in use") by mappers but also data consumers and editors so that we can be reasonable be sure to not have this end up on the "disputed tagging decisions by iD maintainers" wiki page. I am not sure if this is the case for this situation (yet).

One thing we can do here, I think, is to become a bit more to the point. For example by adding a PR that shows how adding this preset could look like. The main issue I see is, that we need to re-defined https://github.com/openstreetmap/id-tagging-schema/blob/main/data/presets/natural/scrub.json. Probably in a similar way to the natural=wood vs. landuse=forest presets.

Another thing that should be less controversial to merge is to add this as a unsearchable preset so the existing data is visible at least.

PS: Please lets not start a discussion on the tag itself, that should happen elsewhere.

ZeLonewolf commented 6 months ago

I read the proposal-statement, scrubery wiki page and some of the discussion on the scrub wiki page. I think the question if this preset can be included should be mainly be made based on if the re-definition (change or at least modified / narrowed meaning) of natural=scrub (to only be unmaintained scrubs) has reached a status where we don't attract too much unwanted discussion on this here.

I'm not sure if these are typos or a misunderstanding. This discussion is regarding shrubberies, not scrub. If someone types in "shrubbery" into iD, they ought to find a shrubbery preset for natural=shrubbery. It seems clear to me that there's sufficient community uptake to include this tag:

Organic mapper usage of this tag has been consistent per taginfo:

The tag has usage in two other major editors - JOSM and Vespucci, as well as several map styles:

It has been included in the OpenMapTiles schema (a leading OSM vector tile schema) for two years now.
It is well documented on the OSM wiki.

My understanding of the guidelines that Martin has for including tags here is, to have the tags officially voted/accepted. In rare cases it is enough for them to be in a state that has been rolled out ("in use") by mappers but also data consumers and editors so that we can be reasonable be sure to not have this end up on the "disputed tagging decisions by iD maintainers" wiki page. I am not sure if this is the case for this situation (yet).

I've gone ahead and added a mention to that page, so there's no longer a need to worry about that. iD's reluctance to follow other projects in adopting organic tag usage is certainly a controversial decision. (edit: clarifying here that Tobias is just a contributor and not a maintainer). So perhaps it will be a controversial decision either way. In any case, when one editor takes a different stance from other editors, that would seem to be controversial. But, if we are worried about controversy, we have the Software Dispute Resolution Panel, which is specifically for these types of impasses and is also a process explicitly adopted for the iD editor.

One thing we can do here, I think, is to become a bit more to the point. For example by adding a PR that shows how adding this preset could look like.

It's unfair to ask for a PR based on the comments here. If the PR is not likely to be accepted, it would be a waste of time for a contributor to do that work. An indication that a well-crafted PR would be accepted would be a healthy first step towards inviting a community contribution. (edit: to clarify, Tobias is not a maintainer)

openstreetmap / id-tagging-schema

Add preset for `natural=shrubbery` #406