Open btopro opened 7 years ago
gusaus
commented
7 years ago I cleaned up the doc a bit, but feel free to rearrange, fill in the blanks, and make it logical. With regards to MVP, is it standard ELMS + OpenCollective integrations such as Tracking community engagement and Advertisement for project sponsors? Will we be incorporating LRN WebComponents and other features/functionality not yet in standard ELMS?
I guess that's some of what we'll figure out in this doc!
btopro
commented
7 years ago Definitely somethings to figure out in the doc. ELMSLN has LRN baked all across the platform tho so that part is a [x] :)
gusaus
commented
7 years ago @btopro The google doc linked in the issue description needs to be swapped out with this - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ogL5VKRNAfJMfAybztRL2EJ2-Sx3NBsT3ZErNYU1gXY/edit?usp=sharing
Unless there's actually a better way to scope these sites in the open?!?
mmilutinovic013
commented
6 years ago Based off @gusaus ' commend on slack I am going to create a new issue with discussions we need to have before a release is possible. Eventually I'll switch this over to sprint tags...but for now, I want to capture my thoughts in a checklist
gusaus
commented
6 years ago I wanna add this related convo from #drupalopenlearning (Drupal Slack) before it disappears:
From gusaus
@btopro Can you refresh my memory regarding how we can use ELMS / Open Ulmus for Drupal Open Learning projects.
For example, let's say we're ready to begin what is poorly described here - https://github.com/DrupalOpenLearning/administration/issues/8
Would that reside somewhere on https://online.openulmus.org/ or could it be on say a subdomain of http://drupalopenlearning.org/
Possibly I've completely forgotten how this could work :grinning:
From btopro
@gusaus so we typically treat that online site like a backend management system. It helps us orchestrate and produce courses
Then we add a course there and say “hey this has content” so it creates a content space for it in the case of Drupal open learning, this then would be told to be a public space anyone can use
think of it like a multi-site factory that’s cranking out drupal sites that are heavily configured in a certain direction and then can be tweaked from there as needed
for example: http://stem-researchethics.org/edsr002/ is an Open research ethics resources powered by ELMSLN but it doesn’t actually live at that domain
it has a normal “courses.whatever” style address but then we point the vanity domain over to it
From gusaus [12:31 PM]
@btopro What you just described there sounds like a great intro to a how we're using ELMS for Drupal Open Learning - whoever is the ID/PM mentor for the project can fire up Twitch to show folks how it's done - possibly pair up with an apprentice to do the actual setup. Each little working session can be archived as a Drupal Dojo session. :ninja:
From btopro [12:32 PM]
cool dood
when u get a point person let me know; we def have the stuff there to at minimum make a nice little housing for some trainings / walkthroughs as well as things to help with self-check exercises / interactive question building
the little xAPI course demonstrates that stuff throughout if you’ve clicked around
From gusaus [12:39 PM]
I was thinking more of the ID/PM mentor role as we were discussing here - https://github.com/DrupalOpenLearning/administration/issues/8#issuecomment-319501601
Not sure if Katrina has current availability/interest, but the point person would be more on the ELMS side?
From btopro [12:40 PM]
well, someone to make courses, ask questions, etc
to get up and going I dont think u need someone to build new functionality; you need someone to start setting up stuff in it and come up w/ areas they need new functionality
I mostly just mean like I can’t be the point person on it cause our team needs to stay focused on build mode for the platform, fixing bugs ppl find and improving author UX
from gusaus [12:48 PM]
Sure - so if Mark is still tasked with https://github.com/elmsln/openulmus.org/issues/2 possibly he can find some point people (and help run the Twitch sessions?) - if our needs are clear I think Drupal Dojo will be a good vehicle for seeking out contributors and other types of support we need
We're touching on multiple issues in this convo, but with regards to my first question regarding "ELMS / Open Ulmus for Drupal Open Learning (website and projects)", is the MVP we're attempting to scope out here a product or distribution (in Drupal terms)?
Similarly, if one of the many OSS projects in wants their own instance of Open Ulmus for their own site/training program as we touched on here https://github.com/elmsln/openulmus.org/issues/2#issuecomment-328946587, will this MVP be the base product?
gusaus
commented
6 years ago Following up on a couple bits from the @btopro convo https://github.com/elmsln/openulmus.org/issues/1#issuecomment-331521363
is the MVP we're attempting to scope out here a product or distribution (in Drupal terms)?
i.e. we could set up an 'Open Ulmus' project on d.o. if there was good reason to do that?
mmilutinovic013
commented
6 years ago We will be building #7 as the first priority of this scope. We need the following resources and discussions to occur to begin.
gusaus
commented
6 years ago https://www.udemy.com/ is probably not the best example, but illustrates some of the functionality (search by category, top courses, become an instructor, etc.) that I'd think we'd want for https://openulmus.org/
I'm assuming incorporate some of these elements on the Open Ulmus site?
mmilutinovic013
commented
6 years ago That seems reasonable to me. openulmus.org would be the landing page then. That could be used to advertise the courses that live in its system. I will add additional issues/tasks in getting that site created.
mmilutinovic013
commented
6 years ago If my role is responsible for this, then this is the vision I see:
1) Landing page of open ulmus describing what it is, how it works, and courses offered 2) courses powered by elmsln (first one being about how open ulmus works) 3) Some advertisement for the collective so that we can keep the platform running and pay contributors for their efforts
gusaus
commented
6 years ago @cleverington this Drupal-Dojo-Collaboration folder you shared with the templates and our high level doc, and subfolders. Is this intended for our high level organization and workflows or will there be a folder like this for every open learning project? Maybe both?
As I think all these resources would reside on Open Ulmus, possibly we should rename or dup this folder Open-Ulmus-Collaboration as a way to better organize the scoping of and collab of this project?
cleverington
commented
6 years ago Honestly I was just drafting out some plans and thoughts, for content I assume will end up on OpenUlmus?
mmilutinovic013
commented
6 years ago I think that makes sense with the flow of open ulmus encompassing these other projects :)
gusaus
commented
6 years ago So why don't we rename or dup the folder and share with the Open Ulmus project team - https://github.com/elmsln/openulmus.org/wiki/(2)-Open-Ulmus-Core-Team
cleverington
commented
6 years ago Folder name updated. As mentioned in Slack though, I was using the folder more for a gathering of ideas as my knowledge-base on the project onboarded better. ^-^
I just had to share it via folder because draw.io was being weird.
mmilutinovic013
commented
6 years ago So as far as roles go - How about we separate it into Program team (hat wearing essential roles to start the initiative) and Project team roles such as developers, IDs, etc. that can be added in once the initiative is built?
mmilutinovic013
commented
6 years ago If we lock this down - I think that we are in a good place to resolve #2
gusaus
commented
6 years ago So random question that I may have asked before… when Open Ulmus to the point of MVP - is that going to be something that can be downloaded - like a product or drupal distribution? I know it’s going to be mainly ELMSLN, but there are probably going to be different features, the primary domain/landing pages would be different…uhhh… does that sorta makes sense?
btopro
commented
6 years ago everything made towards it should be open
[4:21] for example: Adding support for a payment gateway to buy courses; that sounds like a great add on to elmsln
[4:22] contributed to elmsln core as an optional module, lives there; hey download elmsln if u want to run ur own stack
[4:22] if ur talking little marketing sites and what not; if part of that is getting GravCMS into ELMS:LN core; then that’s part of the contribution
[4:23] the specifics of language and icons used in that theme to market the thing; that can live in a repo of it’s own as like a “hey here’s some customization we did to elmsln to use it for our purposes”
gusaus
commented
6 years ago @btopro Based on what you're saying above, I recommend the following -
Does that sound like a good approach?
btopro
commented
6 years ago yup
gusaus
commented
6 years ago I think we need to incorporate the comments and diagram regarding digital infrastructure into our scoping doc. https://github.com/elmsln/openulmus.org/issues/7#issuecomment-342698982 https://github.com/elmsln/openulmus.org/issues/7#issuecomment-342841944 https://github.com/elmsln/openulmus.org/issues/7#issuecomment-342850619 https://drive.google.com/file/d/149Ps_j6J2_MqHJh-0WskYwI8-jNcDbWV/view
gusaus
commented
6 years ago With regards to the digital infrastructure as outlined here -
Are those intended to be working groups that can leverage Open Ulmus to create their own community courses and training? If so, it seems like the platform we're building for Drupal Dojo (which will be a child distribution of Open Social https://www.drupal.org/project/social) could provide the framework for powering those types of groups. https://github.com/DrupalOpenLearning/drupaldojo/issues/23
If that's a possibility, we should include the Dojo platform in the overall Open Ulmus scope https://github.com/DrupalOpenLearning/drupaldojo/issues/4
mmilutinovic013
commented
6 years ago I believe this is the intent. That subset (of course) is merely the Drupal subset. But it'd allow for FOSS communities to organize into sub-communities under a common platform.
gusaus
commented
6 years ago Right - so if we include the Dojo flavor of Open Social in the Open Ulmus network, other FOSS communities will be able to use to organize their own community.
gusaus
commented
6 years ago In an attempt to clarify how this community enabling child distribution of Open Social could eventually be part of the Open Ulmus offering. https://github.com/elmsln/openulmus.org/issues/1#issuecomment-343364964
Maybe we should call the potential product 'Open Ulmus Community', 'ELMS:LN Community', 'Open Social Education' or something that better describes the primary use case.
We should include the Drupal Dojo site in our project scope since it will enable us to configure the site and include features/functionality that can extend to Open Ulmus (and vice versa).
As we've already included Drupal Dojo collective as a way to sustain our team, consolidating the project scope should not introduce any additional responsibilities or scope creep. If anything we'll be able to make better use of the largest community in Drupal (https://groups.drupal.org/drupal-dojo) as a way to bring in additional contributors and sustainers for all our projects.
gusaus
commented
6 years ago This snippet of a conversation with one of the Open Social leads may provide a sense that there is already potential overlap between Open Social and ELMS:LN.
The case study and public roadmap should provide further insight - https://www.getopensocial.com/showcases/pachamama-alliance https://receptive.io/app/#/graphical-roadmap/72a2bdb4-1b62-4875-974a-0e93899a4a29
mmilutinovic013
commented
6 years ago Perhaps we can make a similar roadmap for Open Ulmus. I think it would be beneficial to see if we could coordinate with their group to see if they would like to integrate into our system (potentially for their bigger clients that would need bigger EDU platforms).
gusaus
commented
6 years ago If moving forward with 'ELMS:LN' as a stand-alone, ongoing class https://github.com/openulmus/openulmus.org/issues/6#issuecomment-369710503 the time/cost estimates can be decoupled from the Open Ulmus MVP https://github.com/openulmus/openulmus.org/issues/1#issue-242679421 and moved to https://github.com/openulmus/openulmus.org/issues/29
In doing so, the only outstanding tasks.. in what I think we consider the initial phase of Open Ulmus, would be the logo #26 and some tweaks to the live marketing site https://github.com/openulmus/openulmus.org/issues/34
The features/functionality, guidelines/docs, and plan to sustain can be considered stuff we'll work into the Phase II scope of work (we do have a google doc referenced in the issue description https://github.com/openulmus/openulmus.org/issues/1#issue-242679421). All of which can be built and delivered alongside other related projects by Open Learning Labs https://github.com/openlearninglabs/administration/issues/6
As ELMS:LN and Open Ulmus are projects, securing the budget for all phases of the project (including completed work) should be considered a responsibility of Open Learning Labs.
If any of this seems to contradict previous discussions and understanding regarding overall Open Ulmus scope, I'd circle back and chime in here https://github.com/openulmus/openulmus.org/issues/58
gusaus
commented
6 years ago Picking up on this comment from @btopro a ways back in Slack -
fyi we are working a lot of HAX as desktop app, this is a really important thing to get people to write content seemlessly and do it in a CMS-less format
we’re trying to make the ultimate desktop app for writing FOSS documentation which is a side benefit to what we really need it for but both efforts directly benefit authoring course / training curriculum
Assuming all the amazing that's being discussed is related.... http://news.psu.edu/story/522190/2018/05/18/academics/hax-revolutionize-online-course-authoring-education-technology
Is any of this functionality available or still a work in progress? If the latter, are there ways we can use this open platform build to onboard contributors?
btopro
commented
6 years ago hype != product https://github.com/LRNWebComponents/hax-desktop-app is a thing that you can take and do an npm install and spin up for local development and see where it's at. This would be a good place for you to onboard contributors or at least to get experience with the concept and what it's doing.
gusaus
commented
6 years ago I've been doing a pretty good job talking this up to several groups/initiatives in Drupal and OpenCollective. The interest/demand is extremely high!
That said, we've been unable to move anything forward without a completed project scope and a dedicated project manager. If there's nobody already involved with ELMS:LN available to fill those roles, I think a company that already has a vested interest and resources for providing estimates, dev tools, documentation, mentoring, and potentially hosting PaaS would be the best candidate to take the lead and receive whatever benefits (logo displayed all over the place, video/podcast spots, contributors to this OSS platform etc.) would be considered a good return.
🤔
btopro
commented
6 years ago there's plenty of scoping and tons of talk about doing this but little action in awhile. If pantheon is offering what you just proposed then you should move people in that direction, it just won't be called open ulmus. (tone: if that's what you want to do and have the best shot of doing for your drupal open learning thing)
We honestly do very little drupal anymore, if that's the best path for your DOL thing then please go do that. Open ulmus via elms:ln + hax is on it's own trajectory, if it ends up aligning in the futre cool, if not then that's fine. If you are pinging these threads to try and get me to more actively pursue these efforts directly then it will not occur. I have a wheelhouse and am sticking to it, eventually, open ulmus and open, free training will just occur because of other projects but it will not be overprioritized in our roadmap to shift things ahead faster at the expense of our real needs and directions at penn state. The two are not the same (to get this in writing somewhere) but obviously the open contributions of one help build up the other.
gusaus
commented
6 years ago I kinda thought my last comment was a bit too mysterious - was actually referring to DRUD/DDEV since there's a lot of overlap/compliment in terms of tools, resources, and market opportunity. Main reason I've circled back here is our conversations over twitter has directly led to @rickmanelius taking the first step in making it easier to develop/deploy ELMS:LN https://github.com/openulmus/openulmus.org/issues/48#issuecomment-396239207 and potentially our GravCMS based https://openulmus.org/ https://github.com/openulmus/openulmus.org/issues/48#issuecomment-396415511
If we have this type of dev/deploy flow (https://www.drud.com/what-is-ddev/), it would be easier to move forward with the suggested plan above https://github.com/openulmus/openulmus.org/issues/1#issuecomment-369738844. Especially if a PM/mentor type could pick up on this topic and scope/estimate Open Ulmus as a learning project.
Considering ELMS:LN, Open Ulmus, and Drupal are on OpenCollective, I personally would like to focus back on leveraging OpenCollective to sustain and grow each project. Assuming OC is pretty under the radar - https://medium.com/open-collective/may-newsletter-open-collective-d4292cfa0d48
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ogL5VKRNAfJMfAybztRL2EJ2-Sx3NBsT3ZErNYU1gXY/edit?usp=sharing has a bunch of this throughout but we need a solid 1 paragraph of what this is and why it's useful.
Key For Launch of Open Ulmus:
Time & Cost Estimate for MVP:
Total: $4,875
Post Launch Tasks: