Please can 🦋 palindromic sat numbers be added as a charm?

[ZedZeroth]

These are by far the most sought after exotic sats (i.e. non-Rodarmor rarity sats) and are also the clear leader of the "digit rarity" class of satributes: https://x.com/ZedZeroth/status/1710287036848934984

Thank you :)

@cbspears - Do you agree? :)

[cbspears]

I personally like the idea of adding more charms that the community & market have seemed to come to consensus on, especially if they are a clearly defined category and unique classification.

This would effectively be re-opening the discussion that originated from adding "Black Sats" in 2815

From @casey 's reasoning for closing that issue:

I think I'm going to close this. We can revisit it later. My reasons are:

• It's confusing to add charms/rarities which have the same name (uncommon/rare/epic/legendary) as the existing rarity tier.
• I can't think of good emoji / charms.
• It does feel a little dilutive to me of the existing rarity tiers.

It's now over 2 months later, the rare and exotic sat market has continued to develop, and various sats continue to maintain value in the market.

In response to the 3 reasons to push discussion for another time, I think palindromes may have sufficient reason to "pass the test."

1) They do not have the same name as any existing rarity tiers 2) There is a clearly agreed upon emoji (🦋) which is easily identifiable & appears to work across multiple platforms

Is it dilutive to existing rarity tiers? I think there is a strong case to recognize sats where the rarity derives from the notation scheme as opposed to notable events/blocks/positioning as existing sat charms have.

I also think that it would be a good show to the Rare Sat community & ecosystem to add a sat + charm which was suggested from outside the core ord developer team. I believe all charms to date are ones Casey both suggested + implemented and we have not seen a "community suggested" charm be incorporated to date. Palindromes seem like a strong candidate.

I will caveat that I think an argument against them is that palindromes are not necessarily rare and they may be resource intensive to index. But rarity hasn't been a disqualifier for sat charms yet.

[ZedZeroth]

Thanks @cbspears. You've laid out the case much more clearly than I could. Regarding your last paragraph, based on our analysis of locked sats, once the last sat is mined it's likely that Uncommons will only be 10x as rare as palindromes. They are arguably the rarest "exotic" (non-Rodarmor) rarity class. Thanks again :)

[casey]

How can I get a sense of what sat types are popular? For example, what are the different popular websites which have different sat types, and what are the symbols, relative values, and relative prices of each? Links to as many as possible would be great.

[nftsupply]

good places to look are:

https://satscribe.xyz https://magisat.io https://magiceden.io/ordinals/marketplace/rare-sats

[ordinalscircle]

One of the first pioneers is Gansy:

Rare Sat Society (group) https://twitter.com/RareSatSociety discord.gg/raresatsociety

Marketplace and explorer https://sating.io/

[ZedZeroth]

How can I get a sense of what sat types are popular? For example, what are the different popular websites which have different sat types, and what are the symbols, relative values, and relative prices of each? Links to as many as possible would be great.

Hi Casey. Thanks for looking into this. Here goes:

Leonidas' https://www.ord.io/ was the first website to use exotic categories in addition to Rodarmor rarities. I don't think they have changed categories since launch so you can see the selection on there. They were also the first to use the 🦋 symbol. The main difference between palindromes and the other exotic types are the total supply figures. See my July 2023 X-post for a comparison. Note that I actually over-estimated the total palindrome supply here, it's now known to be 120M with potentially 50% locked in early UTXOs/coinbase TXs: https://x.com/ZedZeroth/status/1677280978845278210

Next came Magisat. Quary's marketplace entirely dedicated to rare sats: https://magisat.io/categories You can see that palindromes are so popular that 12 of the 33 main categories consist of palindrome "layerings". Within January alone they've had Block 666 palindromes selling for $1700, Nakamoto palindromes selling for $1900, a Pizza palindrome selling for $7500... and check out the activity / sale prices for Perfect Palinceptions (palindromes made of repeated palindromes): https://magisat.io/category/activity/perfect-palinception The only sats selling for more are Rodarmor Rares and Black Rares.

Recently Magic Eden (the largest inscription marketplace as far as I'm aware) just implemented a rare sats marketplace: https://magiceden.io/ordinals/marketplace/rare-sats They also list palindromes (and palinceptions).

Note that all major platforms have used the 🦋 symbol since it was first introduced by ord.io.

Please note that it could be thought that I am biased towards palindromes because I have a collection (and upcoming collections) inscribed upon them. But really that's seeing things backwards. I am a maths teacher who has been extremely interested in palindromes since June 2023. I have likely conducted more research into their patterns and circulation than anyone else, and that's why my collections are built on them. I would strongly argue that they are the undisputed leading exotic rare sat class and are coveted by collectors across the world.

Here's my July 2023 post on the total supply count: https://x.com/ZedZeroth/status/1678009309769113600

Feel free to read more of my posts if you want to dive in deeper :smile:

[Misha-btc]

sattrek.com - Provides an overall idea of the value of each category. I recommend web desktop.

Bundles having multiple different sattributes (e.g., palindrome pizza) are not considered. ME data

Also, please familiarize yourself with one of the infinite number of concepts capable of endowing sats with satributes:

"SatoSeries creates a direct connection between sats and inscriptions/collections of inscriptions. It adds a layer of complexity and fairness to distribution, promoting engagement in the collection's economy at an early stage, rewarding those who expand their knowledge of Bitcoin" - Inscription #58 941 610

[bruffstar]

How can I get a sense of what sat types are popular? For example, what are the different popular websites which have different sat types, and what are the symbols, relative values, and relative prices of each? Links to as many as possible would be great.

Check out... https://www.satology.io

[cbspears]

In the interest of helping Casey assess the market better, is there someone who could do some basic aggregation of total volume across most/all marketplaces for the top 10 most traded types of sats?

On Sun, Feb 11, 2024, 3:19 PM Brian Laughlan @.***> wrote:

How can I get a sense of what sat types are popular? For example, what are the different popular websites which have different sat types, and what are the symbols, relative values, and relative prices of each? Links to as many as possible would be great.

Check out... https://www.satology.io

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/ordinals/ord/issues/3095#issuecomment-1937858694, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/A5T23ZKYXW6HZQBFUVUEKLLYTERWBAVCNFSM6AAAAABDBY5U62VHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMYTSMZXHA2TQNRZGQ . You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID: @.***>

[meganoil]

Dans le but d'aider Casey à mieux évaluer le marché, existe-t-il quelqu'un qui pourrait effectuer une agrégation de base du volume total sur la plupart/tous les marchés pour les 10 types de sats les plus échangés ? … Le dimanche 11 février 2024, à 15 h 19, Brian Laughlan @.> a écrit : Comment puis-je avoir une idée des types de sat qui sont populaires ? Par exemple, quels sont les différents sites Web populaires qui proposent différents types de satellites, et quels sont les symboles, les valeurs relatives et les prix relatifs de chacun ? Des liens vers autant de liens que possible seraient formidables. Découvrez... https://www.satology.io — Répondez directement à cet e-mail, consultez-le sur GitHub < #3095 (commentaire) >, ou désabonnez-vous < https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ A5T23ZKYXW6HZQBFUVUEKLLYTERWBAVCNFSM6AAAAABDBY5U62VHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMYTSMZXHA2TQNRZGQ > . Vous recevez ceci parce que vous avez été mentionné.ID du message : @.>

There is @Sat_stats on Twitter who does this SEO work, but he has deleted these threads currently. He is part of the Deezy_inc team

[t4t5]

Here are the ones I chose to highlight on Ordiscan if it’s any help! 👍

https://ordiscan.com/rare-sats

[ZedZeroth]

In the interest of helping Casey assess the market better, is there someone who could do some basic aggregation of total volume across most/all marketplaces for the top 10 most traded types of sats?

These are the volume figures from https://magisat.io/categories in $1000s (I am unsure of the volume time period):

Vintage | 909 Uncommon | 889 Nakamoto | 858 Alpha | 773 Block 9 | 736 Palindrome | 548 Block 9 450x | 484 Sequence Pali | 369 Rare | 262 Black Uncommon | 243 Omega | 225 3d Pali | 121 Pizza | 94 Vintage Palindrome | 82 Uniform Palinception | 65 Block 78 | 60 Perfect Palinception | 55 Nakamoto Palindrome | 48 2d Pali | 47 Black Rare | 33 Silkroad | 29 Pizza Palindrome | 28 Paliblock Palindrome | 26 Rodarmor Name | 23 Block 286 | 18 Hitman | 10 B666 Pali | 8 Block 666 | 8 JPEG | 7

[Misha-btc]

sattrek.com - Provides an overall idea of the value of each category. I recommend web desktop.

Bundles having multiple different sattributes (e.g., palindrome pizza) are not considered. ME data

Also, please familiarize yourself with one of the infinite number of concepts capable of endowing sats with satributes:

"SatoSeries creates a direct connection between sats and inscriptions/collections of inscriptions. It adds a layer of complexity and fairness to distribution, promoting engagement in the collection's economy at an early stage, rewarding those who expand their knowledge of Bitcoin" - Inscription #58 941 610

This is the ME volume for the last 30 days from the sattrek data (in sats):

[Misha-btc]

In the interest of helping Casey assess the market better, is there someone who could do some basic aggregation of total volume across most/all marketplaces for the top 10 most traded types of sats?

These are the volume figures from https://magisat.io/categories in $1000s (I am unsure of the volume time period):

Vintage | 909 Uncommon | 889 Nakamoto | 858 Alpha | 773 Block 9 | 736 Palindrome | 548 Block 9 450x | 484 Sequence Pali | 369 Rare | 262 Black Uncommon | 243 Omega | 225 3d Pali | 121 Pizza | 94 Vintage Palindrome | 82 Uniform Palinception | 65 Block 78 | 60 Perfect Palinception | 55 Nakamoto Palindrome | 48 2d Pali | 47 Black Rare | 33 Silkroad | 29 Pizza Palindrome | 28 Paliblock Palindrome | 26 Rodarmor Name | 23 Block 286 | 18 Hitman | 10 B666 Pali | 8 Block 666 | 8 JPEG | 7

These are mixed sattribute data. There's almost no demand for regular vintage, but at the same time, vintage palindromes are popular, Block 9 (№2 by volume) is considered vintage on its own and is also accounted for in these mixed data, same Nakamoto. This particular issue is what I tried to address in SatTrek.

[Misha-btc]

I personally like the idea of adding more charms that the community & market have seemed to come to consensus on, especially if they are a clearly defined category and unique classification.

I believe we need to broaden our understanding of categories. Palindromes, like rare sats, are clearly defined by a pattern at the sats level, including being able to calculate their entire supply, unlike 'historical' ones where we reach a consensus regarding transactions/set of transactions and subjective events. I dare say that palindromes are even more organic to Ordinals than Roadarmor rares.

[owenstrevor]

I might be biased but I think Pizza Sats are pretty cool.

[meganoil]

I think Nakamoto sats should be the largest memetoken raresats on Bitcoin. Everyone knows Nakamoto in cryptoshere. Really cool

[ZedZeroth]

Here are the ones I chose to highlight on Ordiscan if it’s any help! 👍

https://ordiscan.com/rare-sats

Note that your palindrome total supply figure is incorrect, it should be 120,999,998. See https://x.com/ZedZeroth/status/1678009309769113600 although @gmart7t2 had a much more elegant way of determining the figure. Thanks

[ZedZeroth]

This is the ME volume for the last 30 days from the sattrek data (in sats)

Yes. For the figures you posted, what proportion of the pizza/B78/Nakamoto volume were palindrome layerings?

[ZedZeroth]

Looking at @Misha-btc's list, the issue with many of them is that the total supplies are so huge, and I think @casey is keen to avoid tagging too many inscriptions with charms.

Vintage: 5 000 000 000 000 Pizza: 1 000 000 000 000 Nakamoto: 95 000 000 000 B9/B78: 5 000 000 000 Palis: 120 000 000 Uncommons: 7 000 000

Related to this, the large trading volumes for most of these satributes are for "layerings". People are not spending fortunes on common vintage/Nakamoto etc, but rather palindrome (and other) layerings within these.

As such I think palindromes (a) has a reasonably low total supply (likely 10x Uncommons when you take locked sats into account), (b) has high trading volumes (particularly with layerings), and (c) has a unanimously accepted emoji.

I agree that black sats fulfil (a) and (b), we'd just need some consensus on the emojis [as we'd need black uncommons/rares/epics/legendaries]. I'm also not against including other satributes, I just think taking things slowly makes sense, as you can't remove them once added. And to me palindromes is the top contender for the first non-Rodarmor satribute to be included.

[Misha-btc]

I want to emphasize again what was written by @cbspears:

I think there is a strong case to recognize sats where the rarity derives from the notation scheme as opposed to notable events/blocks/positioning

and myself:

Palindromes, like rare sats, are clearly defined by a pattern at the sats level, including being able to calculate their entire supply

Rare sats rely entirely on Ordinals and are its pure offspring, like palindromes and other patterns that we might want to find in the future, based exclusively on Ordinals. I'm not sure that the discussion of including historical rares is even appropriate since they rely not only on Ordinals. Despite the fact that so far we have had sats falling into only two categories, Ordinal rare and Historical, it's obvious that we should expect an infinite number of ways to endow sats with satributes. One example was provided by me earlier via a link to the inscription.

Inscription #58 941 610

If historical sats are accepted on par with Ordinals Rares, in the future it may lead to even more manipulation around what we should include.

[ZedZeroth]

we have had sats falling into only two categories, Ordinal rare and Historical

Life would be too boring with only two categories: https://x.com/ZedZeroth/status/1710287028019958007

:laughing:

[casey]

Can someone calculate how many palindrome there are? I like sat charms to be pretty rare.

[ZedZeroth]

Can someone calculate how many palindrome there are? I like sat charms to be pretty rare.

Hi Casey. It's just short of 121M, so an overall palindrome:uncommon ratio of 17:1. However, palindrome density decreases with sat number, so we estimate that somewhere around 50% of all palindromes are locked in early sats. This means that the palindrome:uncommon ratio for inscriptions will likely tend towards 10:1 over time. Note that in eight years palindrome production will drop below uncommon production, as the density is now fixed at 1 palindrome/bitcoin until the last sat is mined. Let me know if you need any more info. Thanks

[DrJingLee]

These are by far the most sought after exotic sats (i.e. non-Rodarmor rarity sats) and are also the clear leader of the "digit rarity" class of satributes: https://x.com/ZedZeroth/status/1710287036848934984

Thank you :)

@cbspears - Do you agree? :)

The 🦋 looks beautiful 😄 Sp

[cryptoni9n]

I'm in favor of the inclusion of palindromes as special charmed sats and agree that they should be the next charm added.

However, I also want to give a shout out to sat name palindromes, like https://ordinals.com/sat/abbabbbabba

Sat names, and by extension, sat name palindromes fly under the radar of most collectors, which might be one of the reasons I like them so much. I think the only site mentioned in this issue that even recognizes them is http://sating.io. Even though they are one of the less popular satributes, I think they also deserve their own charm.