osmlab / editor-layer-index

A unified layer index for OSM editors.
https://osmlab.github.io/editor-layer-index/
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Update NLS tile server addresses #1257

Open tommycrock opened 3 years ago

tommycrock commented 3 years ago

Hello. The National Library of Scotland have changed their preferred server locations for maps with national coverage. Chris Fleet, their map curator has updated the osm wiki page https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/National_Library_of_Scotland I have updated the addresses in JOSM but they need updating here.

Most old addresses still seem to work except the os 1:10,560, I'm not sure if this is a gradual swap over. I also noticed the 1:25k isn't listed on that page but a new address following the same pattern works. It's a long time since I've tried doing any forking etc. in GitHub so may need some guidance if you'd like me to do it.

Thanks

cicku commented 1 year ago

I'm thinking of removing them completely from this repo. My opinion is that these imageries (the oldest is from 100+ years ago) serve 0 point in the 21st century. Using them to update OSM is literally committing vandalism without exception unless Bing/Esri/Mapbox never opens UK imagery to the public.

They can be dumped to OpenHistoricalMap if needed.

tommycrock commented 1 year ago

If we had access to modern high resolution OS maps I would be inclined to agree with you. Using them on their own nowadays is unhelpful. Using them in combination with survey and aerial imagery can be very helpful. I hardly ever map without visiting an area but often use them. Also, they are maps rather than aerial imagery so often contain detail that is obscured on aerial imagery, or identifies what the feature is/was. Examples: routes of tunnels, shape of cliffs, walls, pipelines and paths under tree cover, layout of building now in ruins (some walls remain but indistinct on imagery), names of old quarries, fields, cliffs, boulders...

rskedgell commented 1 year ago

One of the older NLS map layers was very useful to confirm that the attempted censorship of a real street name for "profanity" by one of Meta's mapping team was unjustified. https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/127841222 https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/128547975

As @tommycrock says, they're very helpful as an adjunct to surveys on the ground, other imagery layers and open data sources. When most of your local housing is older than the oldest georeferenced maps available from NLS and many of the house numbers and even building geometries are unchanged, it's useful. How useful maps up to 130 years old are depends heavily upon where you are in the world.

osm-spiregrain commented 1 year ago

Please do not remove these.

They are very useful in many areas - particularly for housenumbers. There are very few permissible sources for housenumbers in the UK. Yes, users must be aware that some buildings will have changed since the maps were first printed. But in many urban areas the majority of housing stock is 50 or 100 years old (or more!).

Here is an example from yesterday of some housenumber ranges being added from NLS maps, with cross-references to recent Bing images and a valid source for postcodes. This type of update would otherwise require about a day of walking around peering at peoples front doors.

https://osmcha.org/changesets/131577011/

boothym commented 1 year ago

These layers all have an end_date defined, which allows editors such as iD to exclude them from their background list (which they did a few years to ignore any imagery > 20 years old).

trigpoint commented 1 year ago

These layers all have an end_date defined, which allows editors such as iD to exclude them from their background list (which they did a few years to ignore any imagery > 20 years old).

That was IMHO a crazy decision. 20 years excludes all out of copyright maps.

Used in parallel with local knowledge old mapping is very useful. Where I am mapping, in historic towns with medieval street plans, little has changed in the last 100 years and historic mapping helps to unravel the maze of roofs on imagery into individual buildings

The detail on historic OS mapping in incredible, you can even use it for step counts.

boothym commented 1 year ago

I wouldn't say crazy, it was fair enough to try and reduce the size of the background layer list - but they should have be put into a separate historic list in iD rather than having to copy & paste the custom urls. (I suggested this:https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/3453)