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ossia / libossia

A modern C++, cross-environment distributed object model for creative coding and interaction scoring
https://ossia.io
GNU Lesser General Public License v3.0
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[libossia Max] feedback loop ø.parameter #748

Closed fxw-fxw closed 2 years ago

fxw-fxw commented 2 years ago

here is the patch... Maybe a message like 'set ' could be usefull


----------begin_max5_patcher----------
564.3ocwUFriaCBDF9r8SgEmcs.hSrSu0qU8VusUUQDaZBqrAW.uMQq12qdu
uXEFrSa1c8V2ropWvhgA9muggw2GGg1pNvMnj2l7ojnn6iih.SdCQCyiPsrC
UMLC3FRx+lZ6snzvRV9AKXtQwp2xj6FWP12p5sMbKrKxfUQM3r6.dCczyfa1
ic7PXffiI4yCK2wrU6Excaz7JavCBYQFNMoXkebYoejRyvm1hSag7jzdaODG
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Vtkq2vkrsM.O3KhxbbQFcYZxBxRfOL.aN9+IlEWeLIkvCUZd4+LJmnr8GeOC
vH4ieX5r.8YxB4SW1l9Gnkthl4tSokvc55+hJWvCTiP93VwfJd6mmALpdc0X
bMF1I+RnZtwJjLqPI+cmJNyIk1mXlLsOWooyPYeWOuSuNgvyPIxUPn4kLW+7
IS7qS5h4Hc9SfLT.w55tiqMCdCh3drbqBBrxTXpPFlB09Hsqu9n+vSbDS6Jq
stZ5dMDXnCqBOIPsJGhxdwPIiCOmjF6wlGWzJccOfs9dVqpksYuXmi8c6s75
MJs6m6C+X0g2WX8M1yyIrpJtzVoZBwoqIh+cD1+xJz+H6D5oC4VsaCPf.pNb
3stSVLdiLlgf9F93yzwBIdn8R7Cw+DfvmrgF
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
avilleret commented 2 years ago

this is not a bug but an expected behaviour. [ossia.param] is not intended to be used with gui object, use [ossia.remote] for that purpose. [ossia.remote] provides a deferred left outlet output prepended with set message which is particularly useful in your case. If you want to use [ossia.param] in your special situation, insert a [prepend set] object between the output of the [ossia.param] and the slider.

fxw-fxw commented 2 years ago

Hi, Thanks but [ø.remote] is note a good way for me. the loop probleme is not inside Max but between Max and Score. I need a 'set' message to send osc message on UDP but not send value out of [ossia.parameter]. Maybe a "@set 1" attribut will beter... here is a patch to explain :


----------begin_max5_patcher----------
1682.3oc6YszaiaCD9r8uBBeYu3ZPR8tmRQ60BrWZuDDXHaw3vsxjtRTINcw
9eu7kTnrkjU7irs.6gHGMCoHmu4aFNj7qSmLaEeOobF3mA2ClL4qSmLQKRIX
h88Iy1ltecdZotYyXjW3q9xr4FUBxdgV7tBxNBKCTRD05XUa4UhbhP2QjUJM
S2d423mPQ0M0zNwq6HloxrYfGrp1kJV+DksYYAYsvnM.5s.NGDfPpehvpmX4
yl9HGYJqYfUx91zopGyOKi74zBV5V8Ta196wObrwmJDEf8f6VQYYBNnLmlQJ
9L3NJ6YZIcUNAfp6TNkQVyqX5dh6Dp75.pR5Gpla+aDPlen9GDFp9wKnWLyJ
rfTJ3E1QJ1uowkoOSxVJmXxAXox3oqpDFdzjFHUMQJj3lfTrjvRknfROb9QJ
2ltaWiZsVs6585zLn9vruAlQtvMFdYLyf.MmTixHe3siZdYwe9mmU5E.+NF+
g9tD+EbYweVH6GweiK9CEdYLy+mD+4cdVIJN9FG+slucKgINxJYDRF.jB9jz
L+DXKorLcCAnh3T1NubciLNC7G+1mARZIfwEF8OmlWI0HEweDbOurjltngP7
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vOAhRBmKEA8Rvnfv3Pbje.pKIHG.1wI13C6xQkX3gwFWTr9M+nOB5HnfHpJX
imKddTQbhlCh8Mq6AOhJ1B2SBgQI9dwIX+n3DeMJaefNUpP8fSJNLE2izbxy
jhRJm4z5IyjozbDOwoKJ.7Kl4T77FQTlQDtQTAQs1go+vFooERHPHs+pB6BR
g0qhp9LbYFPVEswapck1oj1ooVHqbW5ZSmU91Z0NUQjnQDXn5mPeyJGwNYwj
jhM470+EIqUFctLCDkIyDIi1DohCl6yxHOlVkKV9HmIJo+idFfTLyNz+ncF1
oxlEi+kBZZdiAroflwYpIQKOgRb8vICIzw.n.WiQ2BV5tN5rYItdTVJMxpxU
oE1E4c8eyDbddaUM8Km7nvpdGkwN.EE7c8qrft4oA56JtT41g91ZMkKqXFsK
kbBwR0x4saWZdtMxt8meeJitMUPDTiK.CaTZVP8ox0E777V1qQyycnISxwWS
dglIdROPtjAYyo6pIQyZ7xYzMxhRZKSjtorsjRwqFP2QT0JaL7RAY6tboUzt
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5zfdv5mMb79RqYyQZVs0EMzS.VFYuSpj55xlTu.w4f.5oP+..pa..41i9Wh3
D3CNJdr3C7Rwm2RunpTvRZ.OL0Mm7Xqi9cELHyLuJM+.FbWwJmek18rneNOM
SU+EfreGujnpG6uqHEuJyx64CRhiBGc4.Ama8.Z+rsn.j+sdmgMltoXRS5rw
ajvKwHQdZyKJ3iq76+jRdAfmMXwtN1mev.0l5EZpq.6V410cmRUaW029Awuu
8C56O31uWkx1L79BCSLLx3dJS8l4x90JY5jQ6vvC3vBM0XifZaHDc8cX18tc
jMrNmJMsWjoa4uL5fK+wDb0a0jCA.dZeYrI4hWe..1YHZp1U15qc3n2n8tdI
CXbAXa3X7sJbrOq32k6YIe7FQ7rSd7KlThej1f1SfFuQDMfQHKo9VmXbn0vZ
xHBF57zvcbl0ngOhxQbtYHr83Ii9HOR2JL1CBgQIIcevtpi.0IszoOJi3yaY
857KlSWKx6DXv6qDRSNTmQKBmHGKTj5g5eCQQuUx54bvsus0KMb0lQO27HFp
ozvl5futmM+2iClGcYGLu0a+iClejEhcYmX8G14x6RKsjtdHmGn8jDN7U4hf
Pl0HGaRl+SP2zip6toqcLZyTIus6ojWUrtFbp2TI3MKUtqZAk0bNk2+1lx.1
DTGQAF6H4CGwHoVm3xGowLPss6szrcbJSTVeIAQKBjTAnYWkQ3ieyOPeAB1V
pe6Bm13w3JvWA7AOJOQxP.T.xER7iiN9MK.Ya4UAfFwz1usymWjYteB3Meja
68btiETyEpbzspb.p5EjnvJLLxbXbvl2N1fPWjAcf2sGKJ5JP1p+HCypuFIX
TWP8osofgn0VGfkH644e7aVZsskWCZ8ASodl29WCDZTYFCuFij2XhUuFCzXR
ZVOatrQZL73qQR.aXej9pFwgl8805MDxkCpeqkwYpJ3fqaUYWGbMqGbEqGe8
p8e0pGdsp5iuuuqSc52l9ujeG0IG
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
fxw-fxw commented 2 years ago

An other way would be to had a [ø.param.send] and a [ø.param.receive], like [udpsend] and [udpreceive]. it would be useful and closer to Max's uses...

avilleret commented 2 years ago

I'm not sure to understand well what you really need. There is already a 'set' message on '[ossia.parameter]' to send value through network without repeating it through object's outlet. There is also an 'osc' message on '[ossia.device]' that allows you to send raw UDP message to connected clients.

If you do want to avoid sending back message receive from network, then you could use a simple gate like that : 


----------begin_max5_patcher----------
1336.3oc6ZsraiaCEcs8WAg1jMtF7kd0UoncaAlMsaBBBjr3jQCjEcknbb5f
4eu7kzHGaIywV1YJvrH1QjL3xy8btT2iT9x7Ydo7crZOvuBd.La1WlOaldH0
.yrWOyacxtUEI05k4slUWm7LyagYNAamPONpcjxl07FQASnWOxNZdldU7zO+
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Mk8yJv8RpASeEXq17+IUfjyqBDEEckq.WwWulUJN.kkLVF.j.tSBy6.VqH.U
MmB675UciwKA+0e7AfTVBJ4By7aSJZjyHGh+QvC7557jkcb+iKA7Jv5jWSYf
T0.pvbuLN.zcfVI9xkKOZkL4nobXus+JdAuxj9fKCinDDID6Sign3fExgfjX
LxOHJ.GR8QGaDTuDbORj3MBQEazgQFJJReEM7FHGK3IYJp.v1sgWyTTy+zvp
dUd3CgBhiBCbVk5eltKvZzFarMgn2rtQM5pL117UL2AI7R.IhngWn+sqR7uy
Yu.vdip66gOp+HxTRf41SXROiCv2QORT5UzjDMRa5MH3Z4RZHJ62aj2g1YBC
OFgg68PlBPSOeMzCYZUQtDYuH6yh+hy0VztZqOxKE04+qluPJw1IK4T+Ecc+
8aU4IEmNsPBUeEYNwgLkONiQKFINysj3Q.gO1VLFcsJFGBE+IOiU3NHh7NYe
XlCDukXPyDH2AQ3Hf.Cu5GKN1cv5N5CLVi0G4zSLZb2Jt7LOwVmJg2R2cMXL
ABggwwG2imxMTuSkNc+0QmoCWa6Z5iWCImHE78YIybBZ+dDgwgxLMLP4TQ8q
Avf1HcdN3Zm1lt1WQuv7QDTKokX5786MhM82CO5nKyit0T0O8nu2stmdK5sl
WuYVz6KLsxtAjmuY1SJ4vWlhiZeEZVa7NdNyOHBNcT0kpu4MypApZ78InZdS
0p1zS6aXE7sMelDV4kIhbdYuEgLq4nZ.WCTjCwocybQAR8dUuYHBep3.mf.4
JEg5VCuRc7xf0sNmJcHvgSTlDcJswTjHcAPQSPfBcQrOEZvfaUf7cI04OEpc
pS0uSAKQcIP6i604Ya34kh51mrXn5dGgPyyeJDe3UTyKz2tR8UWpJ1oDT7X6
aeT+cJMJ7vqns++Vfmr8sCaa59bR24XvK6brXWxXSwIYHmp7mhxDjKk9p2X1
vp.hebOdmPnGdkUEXW4TnBdyVZf8McJxPNUeGLEQh3hzdJBjKmB2taNnMQYq
jaYU01UqChri8OadgLQKzWlWZtT2mqrKWksPy5Q5tS8RpjMPKj811TYcYFXr
m3slKKVKaxs8cHw2bkQaoc.Ui+0aRLPQ6ZX9Wm+e.ygDVn.
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------

Here is a video showing how it works : https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/504914/138609737-667f97f2-dd5b-4efb-a53a-b6062f060967.mov

fxw-fxw commented 2 years ago

Thanks Antoine, Yes, 'prepend set' works with version 1.04 but not with version 1.24 and later... So i can stay on libossia 1.04. Thanks again

avilleret commented 2 years ago

what is not working ? i.e. what did you do, what did you expect, what did you get ? the video was made with ossia-max 82dc72f (which is much more recent than 1.2.4) and score 3.0.0-rc1

avilleret commented 2 years ago

just to be clear, here is a demonstration of the 'set' message working : 


----------begin_max5_patcher----------
1419.3oc4ZkraiaDD8rzWQCcwWTD5MtkSNH4Z.lKIWLLLHk5wgCHYqP1TVNC
l+8zaTl1ZqoTSMCvbvRtWjp9UuWUrJR80oSlkw2xZlA9UvCfIS95zISzSolX
hc7jYkoaWVj1n21rlh7Ur5YyMKU0VlWUvD50P1IyWo2IO6K+Blzam7VwG255
z5zRlfU+DqJMqfoVCZWyrcwqqYly2rYfG28wDK+m7pmeplsTXVMHfr.NGPSB
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GEsys+4BpC0ugfIZviuTT2Vl4NhRNLfvWD0JAZVZ0ymDrHTjFkDp5s.3Ug0R
VSS5yr8nXzAgO9.Ra7ok1CS9hwTit0HeSVDLBXC5J1PPuhsf.Mb7B1NRjo.j
AJ.YtpciGXvnVaN2QcpkKQAXsNEccwjGFuOmJy.g.NqVQiAgR0oaLvz2.bcM
aMqZEngIbkTi7IF6R1DqSyDgugIVCu0IVIXMQF5i7p9iNQdkOIQQlnQjO3y2
AxMo0URFQux1GvOtO3SEhZvVv8Y4UqDbakCeBbed0l7lbIG9VfbQdEaIusRz
mxOqqJYLJtv5x5JtvTSEIP4yrenZVifWa+RUxmcqzjtgs5I4YS9s8jB94YsB
SklS14TOoVt+hkoqWuaY8pZBanz1.qcEdqpcsSaJSqNd0tdIQfzQnDmwOBD8
8HBLXLh.streVi.Qg2pHvNs4ObQfDeFAFh8W.3RdYIqRrGHqXrU.PJ3NIJuC
X6DAnB4TPm2rb2b7Jve8GeBHUkfJtvr9lzhV4Jxo3eF7foc6cr7iK.7ZPY5q
YLPlZBkYtWZG.5NPmBewhEGLPlbJOt5zujWvqM9I3hnXJAQhvAzDHJIbtbJH
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u.vthOZvfkoXyMhghI85a.dSZQhRu88Hg087FF5gljNFk86sxKP6pK.OXBKv
FaAi0hOzUQXG6lLsrHWBsWj0Ywew06NA8LAWelWIZx+OMggTpsyFyo9D6JI7
2pySKlcd+BQmzI1jygLFgiDWYWRxfYWRhMbL1CgiGCE+IeEqvYPDO7bJlBwL
oDGILnYBjyfHZvfHxm4EO0kv1klafOLBL5zoOOb2JtbOOw1NUhFot6ZwXBDB
iRRNbOdptg5kU5r0WG6yqp2kGIVGAFQdyGLrdxLoP6Wt.LIRk2NT0Uh5eCgg
ceoWVKbcKa8W8YRnVtpRDB0xWKEdYM7ch9z+NzjNZLZR2TD2Oq8nSuUsnaad
cL5PuurzJ5Nh37Cqd17rixskERzUhZaie+rL+fn2zVUGn9gefAZLol+8DTCu
sdYmmn6GO.3sC+JIrxqRE47pdaR8b06sox7Uq44UBqICB0UsGFXpZmpkMueD
Mv7TrL6TO5HRJWO2e3Hc3ycG3tJKk3fgh7fchcAPXOYHz4LjmrC9bJKnGLTj
KdNjGLT3sxPAHGrTfO7cTnKw+w9vRtXHzoRzDgTYOhfl6UW3dCnlmRtYa5AW
4QF6RRFev2XW3aePBXmn6jSwBj39ddRHZ+QVhvtSuvDNbrouWgwqUUX0cYyQ
0xn2kQcmgQW2U3b4BOHebkGjSIP8Q1FjKYPUOluiK+vDROAGFFu+Hq7ytSeH
+9vQ5HmapO7PNklLzGVxkJ+7BjbI4FxGkpgf2n70nKplPSw5xB52vparaVaB
YeSew7bwhmqGlWYFpa2Q1qgp0by9Q5dDlkVK6XQH6vns11oenoIwYkbY1mp1
baBHI5lptYGxlxTse0rN0.DcuaS+1z+2NJOEI
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------

and a video that shows score receiving the data :

https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/504914/138652658-ead2b814-c67d-4f17-87c4-378caac1ed76.mov

fxw-fxw commented 2 years ago

'prepend set' does not work in 1.24, there is a need to use a gate (not very elegant ;-))

This patch works with 1.04, but not with 1.24 and later :


----------begin_max5_patcher----------
1167.3oc6ZsraiaCEcs8WAgV6ZH9Pu5pInqKPW0Eyff.YI1TFHI5JQ43oCl+
8xW1Q1V1lNlpYVLKhhoHkt2y8EOWZ+s4yBVw2R6B.+J3KfYy917Yyz2RciY1
wyBpy2VTk2oWVPC8U9pWBVXlRP2Jz2l20wxWVyKoUfO+vmeXIb2RZ5qYMUTg
9wg1axJMO0pW9knAKj2KNdklaI95ZpQKCB.OZmZctn3uYMO+TKsPXlkfRVFt
.jDotBg5AHzxPvipG46ymqtrvUn1Wuh1FrWZs40TAs8IZS9pJs5D5HFSFGin
yhwEffU4MOeYrlQznDgU+KJ79v53t00sz0zlRPGU3p+Dl3SGZTnAcPn1uh7H
H2j21H8n5Y19EzimB9bgnErE7oUrlRAGzUwJos+A3SrlMrNlLF.rOJuh0PK3
8Mhg90qZpxF2TguTbg9OGLYjXrI7PGXfiT1L6C0R6D7V6KESFLSW9FZ4SRcS
91dRAe1pdgo.wr8F0KlKLbx570q2OsdVsC6VcaF6tOxCQgSQrIQmGZryPR3G
eFHwmnDaprL8YfvOhLvnoHCzZx9YF3HF73oH17GtLPrOQILMcpx.uKP5SLhx
zfCQvGiQ6yTvq3sl0FtLKNLIifSyPjjzLxBf1yab+90tTwyKqocc.5107NJf
2U7O8z1uBfYwDPVZRry7b8q8Ryv0ZzfjoHjvPoujtgUPcFjg9GjPL4MN8uaP
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zSr0a+ydhGYe8onYwnH+2R7v.SaX2YBOOZ1qVncBOEFnYWxQJy7CR.mVp5T0
i9hXzXRc+CcPc791hcVB62t.3McuThJVStfwaFrFjYMiFB3pbTcvdUAo5.7t
kDIzAIo1T59kjKB5PbWyJWyYMBq2BlkrLRFeEZZVMAc5HRj97LrqTO5NUaD7
+IeNxIOQ1kLPQvglDRZxoirFH6J8hAxA0lbnym2ppmuKGcRkLbbACuKAejW3
LRNwCAEPmp33iBApiK95XJ5Rge3nrAAbXYc9SFYC+rqzGgeGoRmQuI9vB4TE
rXeHIrK4T9PPtTbam1beRxk33CWzfygFt+Pme6jmOSLnrUWYjEJI1bH2ZJZG
NR1wxfXP8nC.mgkfjIwFZamUC03RRX6EiFktPOj0XFp46KI4n5JvrdM2jf7V
ISIgjYSeqsGiXCCz.0Oei1ldlsVjzhNW0kkjLnh1W25biwSyYb92m+ev5wt9
f
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
avilleret commented 2 years ago

I think there is a misunderstanding here. The set message is designed to set a parameter's value without firing this value through object outlet (wether it is a [ossia.parameter] or a [ossia.remote]). But the value is spread to network if your device is exposed. This does work.

[EDIT] : the following is false : score doesn't not send back a value it received to its sender : that would have been a big break, but another client might do that ~What you are facing to is a loopback between oscquery device and client:~ the value you send to the network is sent back to your device by your client. The set message can't do anything for you here since it only works locally : it prevents only the value you send to be output on the same object, it can't avoid to output a value received from the network even if it is the same.

I know this is confusing but I do think that the issue is on Score side which sends back the value it received. Thus the gate mechanism I show you to break the loop on device (Max) side. But it could be better to break it on client (Score) side. Instead of a gate, you could use the repetition filter on your parameter.

avilleret commented 2 years ago

furthers tests exclude the responsibility of score in that loop... and since the loopback only happens when I send a value from score to Max, I suspect a locked mutex in Max side. I will investigate further how to fix that on max side

jcelerier commented 2 years ago

maybe the changes on parameter pushing wrt. defer and that mutex thing have fixed this ?

avilleret commented 2 years ago

Here is the problematic part of the patcher :

image

With such a design, when the slider value is updated from the network, [ossia.parameter] outputs the value which then goes through [pattr sliderP] and [prepend set] objects and back to [ossia.parameter]. The [ossia.parameter] then try to send this value over the network which is not possible because the mutex is locked. Then the thread waits for the mutex to be unlocked, which would never happen since it has been by the same thread. No more network will be processed.

I got the exact same behaviour without the `[pattr]« object :

image

When used locally, there is no issue since the set message avoid the repeating of the value at [ossia.parameter]'s output, thus breaking the Max loop. (But the value is sent through network).

jcelerier commented 2 years ago

thanks for the investigation ! I wonder if there's a way to provide an object which would have a behaviour equivalent to this subpatch directly (parameter -> pattr) -> set.. what do you use this for @fxw-fxw ? is this for some kind of preset system ?

fxw-fxw commented 2 years ago

HI,

The patch below works for me, but only with libossia 1.0.4 (2020/06/17 - OSX).


----------begin_max5_patcher----------
1957.3oc6bssaiaCD84juBA+riAuHRJ0m5ts.KPwt.EsOTTTTDPay3Ua0ECc
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avilleret commented 2 years ago

@fxw-fxw could you try with this version https://github.com/ossia/libossia/suites/5951824853/artifacts/204240881 (on OSX only)?

avilleret commented 2 years ago

I've inserted a gate like effect in the code to avoid trying to send a value during a network callback

fxw-fxw commented 2 years ago

It works well !

but the Namespace is completely disorganized : I use instances of poly~, and instead of :

model_A.1 model_A.2 ... model_A.x model_B.1 model_B.2

model_B.x model_C.1 etc...

A random organization is displayed :

model_C.6 model_A.4 model_D.12 etc...

everything is there, but it's not easy to find your way around !

avilleret commented 2 years ago

I'm sorry but you lost me

where this namespace comes from ? from Max itself ? from Score ?