cleaning up units - Githubissues

jcelerier commented 7 years ago

Currently, the supported dataspaces & units are :

using angle_list = brigand::list<degree, radian>;

using color_list = brigand::list<argb, rgba, rgb, bgr, argb8, hsv, cmy8, xyz 
/*, hsl, cmyk8, yxy, hunter_lab, cie_lab, cie_luv_u*/>;

using distance_list = brigand::list<meter, kilometer, decimeter, centimeter, millimeter, micrometer, nanometer, picometer, inch, foot, mile>;

using gain_list = brigand::list<linear, midigain, decibel, decibel_raw>;

using orientation_list = brigand::list<quaternion, euler, axis>;

using position_list = brigand::list<cartesian_3d, cartesian_2d, spherical, polar, opengl, cylindrical>;

using speed_list = brigand::list<meter_per_second, miles_per_hour, kilometer_per_hour, knot, foot_per_second, foot_per_hour>;

using time_list = brigand::list<second, bark, bpm, cent, frequency, mel, midi_pitch, millisecond, playback_speed>;

My question is :

What could be removed from this ? e.g. are there really people here using knots, kilometers/hour, playback speed (should this really be an unit?!), barks, picometers ?
Some units may not be what is usually expected: e.g. polar coordinates are actually azimuth-distance coordinates (so (theta (deg), r) instead of (r, theta (rad)) ).
Are some usually used units missing ?

bltzr commented 6 years ago

what's the need of removing units ? a/ concerning km/h and picometers, sure that won't be used everyday, but I don't much more use to mph... but maybe someday, someone will (for a doppler effect ?) - so what's the real benefit of getting rid of them ? b/ I don't know what barks are c/ AFAICT in Jamoma, playback_speed was there to translate e.g. midicents into an actual speed for a sound player (such as sfplay~ or groove~ in Max) - that can be useful...
if there are different ways of expressing polar coordinates, shouldn't we create different "units" for those different modes ??
the only missing units I saw from Jamoma Dataspace are in the orientation group: xyza and ypr (but I have no idea what they mean whatsoever...) my 2 cents.. hope that helps...

bltzr commented 6 years ago

I think a very important unit is missing in the current libossia implementation: Hz the list above mentions "frequency" but it's not showing up anywhere in the implemenations...

jcelerier commented 6 years ago

the list above mentions "frequency" but it's not showing up anywhere in the implemenations...

weird, it's the frequency in hertz

jcelerier commented 6 years ago

what's the need of removing units ?

the less stuff there is, the smaller is the library, and smaller implies faster (it's easier to look up an unit across 20 than across 40)

I don't know what barks are

barks and mel are psychoacoustical divisions of frequencies : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bark_scale

AFAICT in Jamoma, playback_speed was there to translate e.g. midicents into an actual speed for a sound player (such as sfplay~ or groove~ in Max) - that can be useful...

This sounds a bit like a hack so I'd rather try to think a correct solution for this kind of problems, if it's the problems that are in the scope of ossia. For instance, actually using i-score for doing this. Else we could just start put whatever conversion function under the term "unit".

if there are different ways of expressing polar coordinates, shouldn't we create different "units" for those different modes ??

yes, certainly but I'd rather have only the one that is the default in most environments. Or maybe think of someting like GLSL's swizzling to handle such cases. That is, in GLSL one can write

vector3 myvec;
print(myvec.xyz); // equivalent to print(myvec.x, myvec.y, myvec.z);
print(myvec.zx); // equivalent to print(myvec.z, myvec.x);

but it's hard to implement efficiently (in GLSL it's the compiler which does it; software implementations generally make huge libraries or are quite slow)

the only missing units I saw from Jamoma Dataspace are in the orientation group: xyza and ypr (but I have no idea what they mean whatsoever...)

I was more thinking of units that aren't in Jamoma Dataspace but could be useful.

bltzr commented 6 years ago

This sounds a bit like a hack so I'd rather try to think a correct solution for this kind of problems, if it's the problems that are in the scope of ossia. For instance, actually using i-score for doing this. Else we could just start put whatever conversion function under the term "unit".

yes, let's just remove speed

bltzr commented 6 years ago

I was more thinking of units that aren't in Jamoma Dataspace but could be useful.

I guess that's already pretty complete, isn't it ?

jln- commented 6 years ago

Digging this one up, following the issue I reported here (assuming that the cart2pol conversion was broken):https://github.com/OSSIA/libossia/issues/353

Of course, I'm totally fine having this cartesian to polar the way it currently is in libossia, but from a practical point of view, we (I) seriously miss xyz2aed conversion.

If we really need to decide which type of cartesian to polar conversion instead of various options, I'd strongly vote for xyz 2 aed. (I dont remember having used some spatialization libraries for instance that were using the conversion currently implemented in libossia.)

jln- commented 6 years ago

@bltzr @jcelerier @pchdev @avilleret @matcham

Digging this up again again as I wanted to do a simple position unit demo for Score doc without success...

Could we have back the cartesian/polar conversion the way it is in Jamoma. If not a replacement of the current way it is in libossia, at least as an addition ? FWIW, this is a major missing feature to me. :-(

Do you guys use position unit conversion the way it currently is ?

bltzr commented 6 years ago

so, the problem is that you want to add 90° to the result, that's it ?

if so, then I guess that won't be too hard to change in the code.

The only question then is: 1/ do we change this ? 2/ or do we add a new unit ?

1/ who objects against this ? why ? (yeah, I know, that's maybe not the way in done in math, but if that follows the conventions in other 3D software and such, then I guess we should follow the creative applications conventions, shouldn't we) -> @jcelerier ? 2/ If we add a new unit, how should it be called ? (that's for you @jln- )

bltzr commented 6 years ago

BTW, has anybody already used this conversion at all ?

jln- commented 6 years ago

Well added to my confusion is probably more that the unit conversion is broken on remotes in libossia-max.

Given a position parameter with unit.cart3D, sending a clockwise rotation to a remote with unit spherical, is sent and converted as expected to the parameter but the remote outputs a 90° shift forwarded and anti-clockwise rotation.


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8.
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bltzr commented 6 years ago

OK, so only the output of the remote is wrong, right ?

For this dataspace only ?

jln- commented 6 years ago

Well, not sure what is wrong here. Remote output is wrong in some cases, not in others.

With some other units (e.g speed, time) remotes properly output value when value is sent from parameter but do not output at all when value is sent at the remote input...


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thibaudk commented 4 years ago

Hi all,

Experimenting with this, the current version is the retro-compatible one, ie. polar and spherical both present the radius last in the array, with azimuth and elevation in degrees. As i mentioned on the forum http://forum.ossia.io/t/conversion-units/162

If changes could be done (I can give it a shot), the current version could be renamed "aer" as @jln- caled it ("ae" only for the current polar) with 90 degrees added to the azimuth. returning for an "wyz" position of [0, 1, 0] an "aer" position of [0, 0, 1].

More traditional Polar and Cartesian units could then be implemented with rho, theta and phi in this order and angles in radiant. returning for the same "xyz" position of [0, 1, 0] a "spherical" position of [1, 1.57..., 0]

vincentgoudard commented 3 years ago

Since this thread is referenced in the "release-critical" just leaving a note here to mention #579 where I made a proposal on units. If this is too much of a change, at least not rejecting unkown units would be a good start...

thibaudk commented 2 years ago

@jln- and anyone else who would like to test, we now have "proper" polar and spherical coordinates since dd286e7a4445b9c129fb9bca6907e5941c225bd5. AED, AD and ADZ units represent Azimuth expressed in degrees, initialized at x=0, and incremented clockwise. I would very much appreciate some feedback ! cheers

jln- commented 2 years ago

Thanks @thibaudk !

Unfortunately, testing here using latest automatic build, it does not seem to work. See attached patch below. Remote on the left should output the same value as the ambimonitor object on the right.


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-----------end_max5_patcher-----------

(Pinging @matcham as well.)

matcham commented 2 years ago

position.openGL is broken in latest build.

in a remote : conversion from cart3D is wrong and crash when setting a parameter @unit openGL


----------begin_max5_patcher----------
811.3oc2W00aaBCE84To9evhmSQXvPf8zdXRSZZ+CllhbINIzA1HaSWRq1+8
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u9VvqJfWT59Tv9cpF2I3RyZfzAftCgJy1CYcvlZFz4xlnpZp6ABzg65qLg7W
Acxu6C
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------

thibaudk commented 2 years ago

ok thanks I'll test that, and we'll discuss it with @jln- today

thibaudk commented 2 years ago

@jln- and @matcham if you have a moment to test the fix, you can find it here https://dev.azure.com/ossia/libossia/_build/results?buildId=2020&view=artifacts&pathAsName=false&type=publishedArtifacts

Thanks !

jln- commented 2 years ago

Thanks Thibaud. Unfortunately, it seems the build only contains the max patches and all but no externals and libs Le 11 sept. 2021 à 01:44 +0200, Thibaud Keller @.***>, a écrit :

@jln- and @matcham if you have a moment to test the fix, you can find it here https://dev.azure.com/ossia/libossia/_build/results?buildId=2020&view=artifacts&pathAsName=false&type=publishedArtifacts Thanks ! — You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or unsubscribe. Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS or Android.

thibaudk commented 2 years ago

Hi @jln- and @matcham You can find the latest full version for ossia-max here https://github.com/ossia/libossia/releases/tag/latest-ci-build thanks to the latest fix by @jcelerier

jln- commented 2 years ago

Sorry for the delay & thanks ! aed/xyz conversions seems to be fine !

One minor issue is that position.xyz & position.aed do not get displayed in Max's attrui object. But setting it in the object box works fine.

Regarding position.openGL, I am not totally sure what is expected. @matcham: wanna check that one ?

matcham commented 2 years ago

sorry for late reply... position.openGL seems to work as expected in latest build : cart3D x y z --> openGL x z -y

thibaudk commented 2 years ago

Cool thanks for the feedback, so the only thing remaining is to add it in the attrui object. Thanks for the feedback

ossia / libossia

cleaning up units #90