Quest Version?

[StrayRenzo]

Not so much a feature, but moreso a curious request as of sorts.

Is there plans for the pug to ever make it onto the quest? I have heard people saying the world isn’t on quest, and rather I’m curious as to why? And what stops it from being on there?

[OPPEYRADY]

I'd much prefer it not as then there would be a way higher kid count joining, and lots more bad actors use quest than pc right now to do bad stuff, we already have to face people testing their shit on the pug half the time, it would only add more annoyances.

Pretty sure the great pug west already covers this and it should probably stay that way in my own opinion.

EDIT: I should be noting this is from my own personal experience.

[Wasmachineman-NL]

TGP already has a Quest Compatible equivalent called The Pug West, as OP already mentioned.

And HOLY SHIT, NO. The only reason people go to the Pug is because it's PC only and the last bastion of worlds where adults congegrate!

[owlboy]

Hello @StrayRenzo,

I'd like to reply and have this be a public posting of my thoughts on this subject. I've discussed The Great Pug on Android with many people over the years. And my stance has always been pretty much the same. This includes the early period of time where it wasn't yet apparent that The Great Pug being PCVR only was something many appreciated. So what follows are some thoughts on that.

There are a lot of things impacting my ability and desire to put The Great Pug on other distribution platforms.

Including, but not limited to:

• Maintainability
• The desire to support a high player count for events
• The production workflows currently required
• The lack of post processing on Quest
• Video player considerations + events
• Real time lighting options + events
• Overall world complexity + quality considerations

Please note that almost all of these points are improving. Most are being worked on/addressed by VRChat. But there are no timelines. And some of them will be very difficult, if not impossible to improve. But I have seen evidence that some of them are already almost fully addressed by newer hardware such as the Quest 3. Future hardware has the potential to be very powerful.

The above points, and others, are not the full picture though. A social experience and unique context has developed around The Great Pug being PCVR only. This is something I acknowledge and appreciate. But it is only one factor in the overall decision making process here. And while the weight of this point is not insignificant, it is not the overriding factor deciding if The Great Pug will come to other platforms.

The Great Pug will be available on other platforms eventually. If VRChat releases a build for macOS, The Great Pug will be made compatible with macOS. If VRChat releases a build for iOS, I'll investigate all the points above and weigh my priorities. I'd like an iOS build, but I don't want it to be a burden on my already limited time. On a long enough timeline The Great Pug will also end up on Android. But we are not there yet.

You can actually see The Great Pug in action on the Quest 1 back in 2019 over on the UploadVR YouTube channel. You can see how textures were removed, and how at the time there were perf issues. This build was ultimately removed as all of the above considerations became apparent. The Quest 1 was very underpowered and that had a huge impact on my decision. But remember, both hardware, and VRChat have improved since 2019.

Over time, as VRChat performance has improved and Android hardware has gotten more powerful, the primary things keeping The Great Pug off of Android have been the project workflow issues, and the social impact. In the end, the social impact may become the biggest factor in how The Great Pug expands to more platforms. We'll see how that plays out.

Be sure to help foster a friendly social atmosphere in The Great Pug. Help prove that PCVR only worlds having a better social experience isn't just an empty tribalistic meme. And don't talk shit about Quest, and Quest users. It's a bad look, even when you are just talking about asocial kids. We want more people in Social VR, not less, right?

[OPPEYRADY]

Hello @StrayRenzo,

I'd like to reply and have this be a public posting of my thoughts on this subject. I've discussed The Great Pug on Android with many people over the years. And my stance has always been pretty much the same. This includes the early period of time where it wasn't yet apparent that The Great Pug being PCVR only was something many appreciated. So what follows are some thoughts on that.

There are a lot of things impacting my ability and desire to put The Great Pug on other distribution platforms.

Including, but not limited to:

• Maintainability
• The desire to support a high player count for events
• The production workflows currently required
• The lack of post processing on Quest
• Video player considerations + events
• Real time lighting options + events
• Overall world complexity + quality considerations

Please note that almost all of these points are improving. Most are being worked on/addressed by VRChat. But there are no timelines. And some of them will be very difficult, if not impossible to improve. But I have seen evidence that some of them are already almost fully addressed by newer hardware such as the Quest 3. Future hardware has the potential to be very powerful.

The above points, and others, are not the full picture though. A social experience and unique context has developed around The Great Pug being PCVR only. This is something I acknowledge and appreciate. But it is only one factor in the overall decision making process here. And while the weight of this point is not insignificant, it is not the overriding factor deciding if The Great Pug will come to other platforms.

The Great Pug will be available on other platforms eventually. If VRChat releases a build for macOS, The Great Pug will be made compatible with macOS. If VRChat releases a build for iOS, I'll investigate all the points above and weigh my priorities. I'd like an iOS build, but I don't want it to be a burden on my already limited time. On a long enough timeline The Great Pug will also end up on Android. But we are not there yet.

You can actually see The Great Pug in action on the Quest 1 back in 2019 over on the UploadVR YouTube channel. You can see how textures were removed, and how at the time there were perf issues. This build was ultimately removed as all of the above considerations became apparent. The Quest 1 was very underpowered and that had a huge impact on my decision. But remember, both hardware, and VRChat have improved since 2019.

Over time, as VRChat performance has improved and Android hardware has gotten more powerful, the primary things keeping The Great Pug off of Android have been the project workflow issues, and the social impact. In the end, the social impact may become the biggest factor in how The Great Pug expands to more platforms. We'll see how that plays out.

Be sure to help foster a friendly social atmosphere in The Great Pug. Help prove that PCVR only worlds having a better social experience isn't just an empty tribalistic meme. And don't talk shit about Quest, and Quest users. It's a bad look, even when you are just talking about asocial kids. We want more people in Social VR, not less, right?

---

The issue isn't about the quest in general, its more over the community it tends to overwhelmingly attract right now. A lot of people including myself who go to the pug to get away from places that have a abundance of kids and various other annoyances that quest worlds attract.

This isn't a issue just related to the pug either by itself, this is a platform wide problem that isn't solved by one person or entity.

Mind you not all quest users are bad and there's a lot of adults too, but we're not baby sitters and personally I'd think it would only detract value from the pug having to on top of dealing with the pains of malicious users being even more common (quest still has a LOT of these issues), having to constantly block and report more and more kids.

You are allowed to do what you want at the end of the day as its your world, but what you do also affects the community as a whole that's built up on the pug and prefers to not be slammed with the issues of cross platform, while some may like it... most of us wouldn't I am speaking from experience over my whole existence being in the pug (98% of my gametime on VRChat is on the pug), most cases I've asked of people have also said the same thing, its a safe place and none of us really want cross platform (Mind you, I am speaking from general collected opinion I've seen on my own time over the years, so there are prob people who are interested in it as well!)

"And don't talk shit about Quest, and Quest users. It's a bad look, even when you are just talking about asocial kids. We want more people in Social VR, not less, right?"

No offense, I think that is a gross generalization of these issues, the quest is good for its availability and makes it easier for people to get into the VR scene, but by inviting it in to the PUG you completely change the social dynamic and mix in factors that a lot of us don't really want to deal with.

I have rarely if not ever seen a single kid on the pug, but in quest worlds its basically constant on top of bad actors who do weird shit with them, none of us want to see that in our favorite world, we can't even turn off fucking props in the pug, and even if you ignore the blatant issue of kid population potentially flooding the pug, a lot of skids right now who use quest right now love prop manipulation to crash people and other various methods similar, the other day I ran into it already it would be even more common than it already is. (People already like to test malicious shit in the pug all the time)

I think while most of the people I know would like to meet new people, most would rather not meet a few new adults but having to just accept that our favorite spot is now, a playground. If they are that interested, there is a link cable for a reason, that alone deters a lot of the kid population.

It's a virtual bar that is for DRINKING filled with adults who also don't always have the most SFW practices, not a resort, even if you put aside the weirdos and kids themselves as a concept, it's not a safe place for them and honestly should NEVER be considered a place to go for them, by enabling quest you are actively playing into these issues, are you gonna moderate and make sure that its safe for all ages?

While it would allow some adults to also join as not all quest users are kids, the fact is that it would just make it too easy for kids to join as well as there is a larger younger audience, this is why so many quest world public servers are so bad right now. I can't personally even go to a single one without running into someone doing weird shit in those worlds, or kids screaming 24/7.

That's my two cents, I know it may tick you off a little, but I think it would be a VERY bad idea and I will not support it personally and I know a LOT of other people who would feel the same, I love the pug and I want it to grow.

But at the end of the day community stuff matters the most, but personally I am heavilly against the idea, but I will agree with one thing, don't attack the quest users just for having quest, you can dislike the community it attracts but not dogpile on individual users.

[Az-Neter]

More accessibility is almost always a good thing regardless of what personal emotions might have to say about things. Tools exist to limit bad actors. I see no issues.

[g4rd3n-0f-3d3n]

I would also prefer no quest version, or at least for it to be published as a separate world. The pug is the only public world I still enjoy frequenting. Thank you for reading this 🤍

[halomakes]

just go to the black cat.

[Rider-UwU-Black]

black cat does sound a lot better, just go there