Klaranth
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1 year ago Related NSSM issues :
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kiedtl Question about the warzone alien thing: is it possible to rapidly regenerate map chunks while guaranteeing that the alien ship decoration will spawn somehow? I'm wondering how hard it would be to iterate on schematic designs Also, somewhat related: if such a mod is added to pandorabox, would it be a good idea to periodically "flush" out the warzone, or at least chunks without certain nodes (tnets, telemosaics, protection blocks)? That way the warzone will never be "fully" explored and players will never run out of alien ships to loot.
SX I think there's probably no really need to flush anything, for consumables we'd probably like to spawn ships on generated areas continuously anyway possibly self destructing visited ships. Ships probably would use some selected models, also things could be randomized a bit but of course every addition requires more work. Warzone isn't very large area, if there's not much interest it would last very long also without respawning but if there's enough interest and distances are something similar to dungeons it wont stay very interesting very long.
It is true that area is actually large and it wouldn't exactly be empty very quickly but actual density of useful stuff can get very low very fast, kinda better rewards vs more rewards and I think more would be better for this. So while things are built using nodes they could spawn kind of like any mobs.
kiedtl Sorry, should've clarified: my question about regenerating mapgen was for developing the mod, to avoid having to create a new world and search for the decoration each time I made a minor change About ship models, that'd probably be the easiest bit if I'm using a level editor-like utility (e.g. rexpaint)
If I do get to working on the mod, I'd probably have 3-4 models: a scout ship, an assault ship, and a larger station. Then there could be alien ruins on the moon and earth: drones, larger ship bays, checkpoints. Of course, they wouldn't have any reward, just flavor.
As for randomization, perhaps each ship could be composed of 4 "quadrants", where there could be many variations of each quadrant which the mod fits together into a bunch of schematics at load time then registers. something along the lines of what's described here:
https://www.gridsagegames.com/blog/2015/11/garrisons/ Garrisons - Cogmind / Grid Sage Games
Where garrisons fit in the world structure, with a detailed review of their layout, inhabitants, and a slew of new mechanics.
SX My point was that mapgen is not needed for generating ships.
kiedtl Okay, I've misunderstood your message then. My bad
SX What I suggested was to drop ships onto already generated areas instead of having mapgen, that allows respawning without clearing map.
kiedtl Got it, that makes a lot more sense than how I was reading it.
SX Of course could be added through decorator onto newly generated areas but then could possibly even add some jd effects like particles and sound so it feels like ship actually just jumped there :)
kiedtl That would be really neat, but the ships are supposed to be abandoned with only auto-defense systems still intact...
SX But underlying should probably allow just placing ship without affect whole mapblock but just nodes ship actually contain.
kiedtl True Now that I think of it, an "abandoned" alien moon base that appears empty when first walking in, then suddenly spawns 2-3 ships full of alien warriors after player triggers some kind of alarm sounds interesting
SX Maybe some ships aren't actually abandoned... but that probably needs some additional work unless just using mobs we're already familiar with.
kiedtl Though that's probably beyond the scope of an alien-ruins-found-in-warzone mod? Not to mention, it would then have to be possible for alien ships to damage player's protected nodes. I was thinking of adding special alien warriors, yes. (Those aren't already in the game somewhere, are they?)
SX I think xenomorph is most alien thing on pandorabox currently but there's some mods that might have something usable..
NSSM been suggested before, maybe one or two of those could fit. NSSM mobs have some special abilities: https://wiki.minetest.net/Mods/Not_So_Simple_Mobs
kiedtl I'd personally prefer to package a new mob rather than rely on other mods, mainly for consistent theming and also so that the equipment they drop can be controlled for as part of the "reward" aspect of looting ships Thanks, I'll take a look
SX A Mordain is a hostile mob that likes teleporting. Not sure how well that works in space though... depends on actual mob behavior I think TenPlus1 maintains most recent version https://notabug.org/TenPlus1/nssm
MCLV ooh. sounds creepy. I like
SX But NSSM can't be added as is to pandorabox, suggested many times before but spawning areas has to be restricted or almost everyone on earth surface will be dead in no time...
Hedgehog Either in Mars caves, ... or the second above Warzone ...?
SX If kiedtl likes some of those then maybe at warzone :)
MCLV how 'bout mars? it's so safe, it's almost boring :D
Hedgehog Ive played and survived on NSSM server. But agree with SX , the death toll here will be impressive.
SX We really can't add all of those tools and weapons, fairly simple with those but without I guess not so much.
Hedgehog IF NSSM/NSSB gets implemented, I strongly suggest to NOT dump all mobsters in one go. Start with the simpler ones, like the Ant Queen, the Stone and Sand Bloco's, the Ducks and Duck king and perhaps the Sandworms and King Sandworm.
SX Giant ants and their nests from NSSB would be nice on earth maybe with some little adjustments. Also one can fairly easily run from ants if it comes to that and their nests are visible from far.
Hedgehog Icelamander still scares the shit out of me. Icelamander kills you first with an ice spray, then turns your bones ( WITH content) into an ice node, so you lose all your gear. And the black widow is why I dont feel comfy in Jungle area Pumpking kills you when you get too close. Scrausics destroys your hut when you place it near its spawn point
MCLV This sounds like a totally different planet would be much more suitable
kiedtl I have to say, the mod looks quite impressive but I don't like the theme ... none of the mobs feel alien enough, at least the type of alien I'd go for. I do agree though, Mars needs to be a lot more dangerous than it currently is
MCLV So it will be the scary level of Pandora, like a horror level. We'd warn players not to go there unless they have made peace with death
kiedtl Maybe instead of alien moon bases we can have alien mars bases Destroying bones sounds like a fun thing for aliens to do Surely they wouldn't just leave your remains alone. They'd suck it up into a tube or something, liquify it, and send it to a molecular analysis suite
Hedgehog
As for the Morlendor creatures :
Morwa are statues, unless you place a torch in front of it, ... then it will try to kill you ( and often succeed).
Morgre is a flower girl, that is a flower during the day, but turns flower girl that goes BOOM when you are near it in the night ...
Water in Morlendor kills you .... Dont step in it.
MCLV Oh, I'd be so pissed at an alien for destroying my level 100 multitool! I love it!
kiedtl That sounds so creepy. I love it
kiedtl Idea: Alien power source that outputs 80kEU with no fuel intake, but the tiniest exposure to water or sunlight causes it to explode with an intensity of 10.
Hedgehog Here's the nasty part of Morlendor. It is black. The floor is black, the water is blackish, all the mobsters are black, the sky is black, the light sources are non existing. The place is BLACK
kiedtl So... how does one navigate there?
Hedgehog kiedtl : VERY carefully, and bring tons of bright lights, and hope you dont place them in front of a Morwa :)
kiedtl Huh I really need to check this mod out :)
Hedgehog Whatver you do, don't install the Masticone, unless their phoenix spawn rate is fixed. Normal spawn rate is : kill 1, 2 come back. Keep it up, and the server dies.
The best part of NSSM is that all the mobsters have a king or queen
SX Or alternatively also install advtrains and get OP starting gear right from beginning :p
Hedgehog Kill royalty enough times, and you get a lot of their rare items, with which you can create the mese dragon egg, the Boss's boss so to speak. Killing the mese dragon is TEAMWORK Normal health : 333 but I have seen them health of 666. Armor 4, Damager at 8. Claws kill you, Tail kills you, feet kills you, Bite kills you, Roar kills you, anything it touches turns into mese blocks.
SX mantises are just... mantises, no bosses Those mantises could fit Mars caves maybe?
Hedgehog Mantis are awesome. So are most spiders Same for ant queen Octopus and Kraken in the seas ....
Hedgehog Actually, SX, Ducks and the Duck king on Earth would be fun :)
SX And I guess would probably get very messy very soon.. Maybe if not in "normal" amounts.
Hedgehog Ducks can be killed fairly easily and are a great source of food/meat.
MCLV This could be an attraction to some. but we wouldn't want to disturb the master builders on earth
Hedgehog Kiedtl : I think I found the NSSM/NSSB server : http://www.telesight.nl/landofsurvivors/ LandofSurvivors by Telesight Heavy survival server. Definitely not a server for fearful or weak players. Be ready for some strong, fast, mean and scary creatures. Everything on this server will try to kill you. Everything! And when you have learned to master the life at the surface then an even more cruel world …
SX Random duck here and there could work but would think twice before adding king.
Hedgehog The king is fun part. It will attack you by propelling dozens of ducks towards you
kiedtl Issue with adding monsters to earth is not making it too difficult for newbs wearing steel armor While at the same time making it challenging for players in lava armor
Hedgehog Then dumping them on Mars solves that
kiedtl Agreed
MCLV I think TK423 would have some objections, unless there is some kind of shielding to those aliens
Hedgehog Some more info on Morlendor characters : Morvy likes to summon others Morlu will steal your armor Morde heals itself Mordain teleports Morgut will steal your food Morgre explodes Morwa is both range and melee fighter in one
MCLV
Ya know, I'm kinda liking this.
Not sure Mars is the right place for this tho, even tho I suggested it.
What kind of rare items are we talking about here really?
kiedtl Alien items? I have a list somewhere L-Cannon Entropic vortex reactor -- 80kEU power output. Extremely radioactive, more so than corium. Requires special shielding to negate effects. Exposure to vacuum causes it to detonate. Layered radiation plating -- needs 26 to cover EVR, but most ships will have them destroyed and only spawn w/ a few intact radiation platings Quantum shearslug -- clips through some nodes without affecting them, destroys others (>10 velocity). Inf penetration within range. High intensity. No explosion. Intended for railgun Alien broadsword -- reflects damage (?), very fast attacks Alien exoskeleton -- extra walk speed (not as much as lava boots), jump bonus, extra breathing, negates realistic suffocation in vacuum, partial radiation resistance, very fragile (gold-level fragility?)
Hedgehog Actually , before deciding you want NSSM/NSSB installed, you should try the other server first, just so you know what to expect. I have always been a proponent of the mod, but it is NOT for everyone.
MCLV I guess people really love the dangerous things eh?
kiedtl Is it possible to get a dungeon master egg? Asking for a friend.
The4spaceconstants Excuse me- Turning bones into an ice node? This isn't just hostility, this is hatred!
kiedtl It's developer sadism Every game needs a couple monsters like that Not ice though. I would turn it into a noteblock playing Never Gonna Give You Up
The4spaceconstants Yes But since I look at fictional beings in both directions, I see the why and why nots of them. My storyteller side is tingling with a sense of disgust, while my designer side is going "just a way to make the game harder".
OgelGames
birdlover32767
SwissalpS
BuckarooBanzay
S-S-X
Related issues : https://github.com/pandorabox-io/in-game/issues/10 https://github.com/pandorabox-io/in-game/issues/82
kiedtl Nether-like area, but it's a larger/fancier procgen'd dungeon that's found rarely at certain depths (something along the lines of Minecraft's strongholds) Bonus if it has powerful bosses that are actually, you know, deadly to armored players. Deadly enough that the best thing to do would be to take a ship down there to fight it. That way whatever it drops on death would be a valuable trophy worth displaying.
The4spaceconstants make it another ship please
kiedtl What? You mean add a little jumpdrive in the center?
The4spaceconstants nah, the boss is a ship, and the rare drop helps make ships smaller than usual with the same power.
SX I could see abandoned alien spaceships being source for some over powered single use weapons like some very special space cannon ammunition (after kiedtl's space cannon improvements gets merged). That could introduce unique reward: overpowered weapon that you cannot simply craft but have to collect stuff from dangerous area (see bunker buster I've suggested for space cannon mod, requires kiedtl's space cannon improvements). So it would be either not getting it or wandering into area where crashed alien space ships might have some unused salvageable ammunition and other stuff left behind... but might also have some automated defense systems online and actually attempt to shoot you as you approach.
kiedtl Love that idea. Perhaps those ships would spawn in the warzone, enhancing the usefulness of that area?
The4spaceconstants "alien" Why is it that in every sci-fi story that includes extraterrestrials, they have better tech?
kiedtl I still would like to explore giant strongholds though... Well, story about humans steamrolling primitive aliens isn't that interesting I guess
SX Because we already have aliens in space, I would add some ships for them.
kiedtl Technically xenos would count as the alien's pet gone feral rather than actual aliens
The4spaceconstants About that, but why never in identicality? Example: They have achieved around the same technological advancement, but with different methods and PoVs. After discovering each other, they try to understand each-others' languages, and by communicating their methods and PoVs, they mutualistically advance.
kiedtl But killing stuff is fun! I mean, who wants a mod that forces you to discuss peace treaties with aliens instead of blasting them?
SX I think here it would be about identically right?
kiedtl Then again, such a mod might be interesting if it was made in the spirit of Dwarf Fortress' elves (where the elves repeatedly harrass the player for cutting down trees, and try to make the player sign a treaty limiting lumber usage)
SX And of course better and unique stuff could be added but someone has to actually do it, what I am looking for is new ways to reuse what has been done keeping actual required work on new stuff minimal. So far issue with adding big things is that nobody really has been ready to work hard enough / long enough.
SX In my suggestion it would be warzone (we have this) + aliens (we have this) + randommly spawning space ships (partially have this) + defense systems for ships (partially have this)
kiedtl I had been planning to do a nether mod after the spacecannon stuff is done, time permitting. Maybe I could pivot to alien mod instead About the warzone, I wonder whether it would be a good idea to have rare chance for a deserted ship to spawn on land as well Ideally with a few villagers in cages still inside
SX Could be but probably should not come with some unique extremely powerful loot. Could be something different but all overpowered stuff should not be obtainable without real risk (provided by warzone).
kiedtl Fair. In that case the ships could be partly damaged and appear to have been evacuated to account for lack of loot.
SX Space ships or any other randomly spawning special stuff would be really cool anywhere but warzone stuff could come with over powered limited use items (there's list of items somewhere).
kiedtl Agreed
The4spaceconstants What if blueprints were a thing
kiedtl blueprints for what?
The4spaceconstants Items that don't appear in the crafting guide, but are still craftable.
kiedtl — 05/26/2023 6:47 PM I like that idea, bonus if it's one-time-use or something But would be difficult to work around minetest engine's limitations, I'm guessing. Maybe someone more experienced could weigh in
The4spaceconstants "1-time use" that's not how blueprints work
kiedtl I feel like it'd be overpowered otherwise As for theming, maybe it's some kind of computer chip that self-destructs after it has been read from
SX Crafted items cannot be too powerful if ingredient collection can be automated in any way. Xenomorph eggs as ingredient might work.
The4spaceconstants Self-destructs when read if the correct password wasn't input. Would be an interesting idea if we had cryptography as a game mechanic.
SX Well with random stuff it kind of is but probably not what you meant :p
The4spaceconstants We craft the items with reusable password number items, the password is: how many items in the crafting grid 2~9, where the chip is in the grid, and what number items are used.
kiedtl One idea for alien loot would be alien armor, which could be similar to diamond/mithril armor but come with some special characteristics (maybe fire resistant, increased breathing times in vacuum/water, reflecting damage). This armor could maybe then drop from OP "alien warrior" bosses. Hm, theming the armor as a single-item "exoskeleton" would be nice That way it could be OP but have tradeoffs (unable to wear lava boots in conjunction with it)
The4spaceconstants (11^8 - 1)*9
SX Special armor I guess could possibly disable realistic vacuum suffocation. Or even extended if special air bottles can be obtained only by actually doing something like taking down more bosses :)
kiedtl By "disable" do you mean give full vacuum breathing? Because that might infringe on spacesuits too much imo Ideally each set of armor has meaningful difference, benefits, disadvantages, etc from other armor sets
SX By disable I mean disable realistic suffocation and turn it to regular suffocation like underwater.
kiedtl Ah.
SX As in it would be like you're underwater instead of like actually being in vacuum.
kiedtl Yeah, forgot that there are two types of suffocation ingame
ProbMaxino's_twin Power meter is basically where you buy electricity
kiedtl Is this something that would be found on an alien ship? Or is this a separate idea. I'm confused
The4spaceconstants With my method, I'm thinking that there would be 1 929 229 929 possible combinations. That's a lot.
Huhhila I'd actually like having some thermal and vacuum weapons... or damage-type specific WMDs in general. Since using replacer with torches for removing everything feels rather silly.
SX There's one issue with this idea: standard crafting does not know item count and cannot use stacks, only single items. Well, I guess it could be done through on_craft callbacks or with special crafting tool but would be rather complicated. But I guess it would anyway have to be some custom crafting thing if it would need blueprints too.
The4spaceconstants no, I mean items with numbers on them. 0~9, not 0~99.
SX Oh well yes then that works with standard crafting, I guess then only thing to do is actually hiding recipes. What about numbers, how'd players obtain them?
Randomizing normal registered recipes could do the trick to some degree but not completely. Works and would be enough if it's fine to give recipes to other players. I guess not randomizing anyway would be pointless because then anyone can just read the code to obtain recipes. If recipes should be unique for each player then it has to be active checking.
Huhhila locator:beacon_{1,2,3} + digtron:digtroncore => ? Maybe also locator:beacon{1,2,3} + digtron:digtron_core + digistuff:nic but the previous crafting recipe ought to result in something quite a bit simpler...
The4spaceconstants 1 iron+ 1 copper spool shapeless : number item "0" place it in the crafting grid, left side subtracts 1, right side adds 1, middle resets {"cryptography:5","",""} outputs "cryptography:4 1"