Piwik's Tibet problem in China discussion

[phodal]

discussion with https://github.com/piwik/piwik/issues/6006#issuecomment-319600316

@sgiehl @mattab @tsteur @diosmosis

As you know, First, recently in the border between China and India is in confrontation.

We can follow your option, but If we do so. We can aslo saw the Piwik make a difference for India, for example: Sikkim was a part of India.

Should we also free Sikkim?

In my optioions, the war was the war. The war is cruel. Once you lose, you lose all.

In world war I, China lost Mongolia, it become a country. also in Russia divide a lot of territory from China. Now it become a part of Russia.

Should Piwik give those back to China ?

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因为观光群众的 issue 太多，导致 Piwik 的 Issue 和 PR 已关闭，这样下去是不能从根本上解决问题的。

这里是为了解决 Piwik 的问题而存在的，不要回复与主题无关的内容。如果真要撕逼，我们可以换到地方。

[justjavac]

The provider of the map service should ensure that the map information is neutral and accurate, and any map that does not meet the de facto standard should be amended.

Please remove commit piwik/piwik@4e47c8a.

[sgiehl]

@phodal As mentioned in my comment, I do not want to discuss about any political stuff. I'm participating in the open source project Piwik to create a great webanalytics tool. I do not have an opinion on that Tibet/China stuff as it's non of my business or interest. But actually official maps are showing it in a different way (than Piwik's map), so I don't see any reason for not changing it (this is my opinion, I can't say anything for anyone else). But to be honest, I will refuse any help as long as I get trolled and spammed for trying to.

[phodal]

I just try to resolve the spam issue. I don't want to discuss political too. In fact, It's not only about political, but also the technical issue. Once a lot of people use Piwik, it will change the people's opinion in mind. Because every day, they saw a error map.

And, @sgiehl let's discuss in a technical way, segregate the map plugins from main repo. Then each side can have a map which they will agree with this.

[phodal]

And @sgiehl @mattab @tsteur @diosmosis, it's a long issue. If it couldn't be resolved, For now, it just make Piwik's issue & PR closed. For future, it will harmful to Piwik Pro company.

[glasphy]

@sgiehl define your official map. If popularly used maps including Google map, Apple map, Nokia map do include tibet as part of china, you will not see them as official maps, right? List your 'official map' name and publisher, so we can learn a new world, right? By the way, long live the GDR.

[sgiehl]

@glasphy thanks for trolling. If you would have read my comment with more patient and respect maybe you wouldn't have misunderstood it. But I don't want to start another discussion about any maps - I've updated it, so it is more clear. So hopefully no further comment is needed on this

[dontpanic92]

@glasphy You misunderstood @sgiehl 's comment actually

[sgiehl]

@bsssdnnh I already mentioned that in some other issues. The main problem why we didn't change anything on the map in the past year(s) is, that the creator of the map is not longer available, and the tool for creating the maps doesn't work anymore. We have other open issues (besides the Tibet one) that requires changes in the map - which we simply can't handle at the moment. Changing the Tibet stuff should maybe be possible by reverting the old changes and doing some adjustments in various APIs to combine the already stored results. Can't promise that would work, but might be worth a try. Making the whole map more flexible would be awesome, but that would require creating completely new maps. Unfortunately that is something that's totally out of my scope. But if we find anyone who is able to help with that, I would be happy to support.

[fengkaijia]

@sgiehl We did try to solve the issue by reasoning, we did it years ago. The problem is very clear: @mattab needs to promise that he will accept a PR on this. Because, otherwise, it's simply considered as a refusal to the issue for some people.

There are people believe in negotiation, there are also people believe in showing force. This refusal (at least till this point), is being regarded as an offense by the latter. So if no one can make a say here, I'm pretty sure the Issue and PR panel will be closed for at least awhile.

The West believes in diversity, the East believes in unity. The unity has been long defined to include territorial integrity. As a wise man said in some English textbook, only when you accept that your culture is not the center of the world can you open a new journey of lifetime. That wisdom applies here, if you guys can accept such PR, I'm confident that the spammer will stop.

[sgiehl]

@fengkaijia I promise to start a discussion in the team about that

[fengkaijia]

@sgiehl So please confirm to the team a PR that:

1. rebuild the entire world map from the original dataset, without any modification;
2. remove hooks, translations and the flag regarding Tibet;
3. plus some upgrade script to change the database (I'm not sure if that's needed).

will be accepted. Thanks!

[fengkaijia]

@bsssdnnh It's actually not a "地图提供商", but a script piwik/piwik-map-generator with needs to be updated with the new data source.

[longpractice]

In my opinion, another right thing to do is to keep the author (Gregor Aisch) of commit piwik/piwik@4e47c8a out of the group.

This commit brought all the political issues into a technical repository deliberately. The commit author abused his power as a programmer. Enforcing personal political preferences on a technical repository is putting the programmers in trouble. Such a behavior should be punished, in order that it will not happen again.

Danke.

[speedneeder]

-- @fengkaijia I promise to start a discussion in the team about that

We are expecting you to make this

Thank you!

[sgiehl]

@speedneeder already did. Can't promise anything, but will get back here as soon as we have a decision on that topic

[phodal]

@sgiehl Could you ask team, to create a new issue about the process of map with GitHub's todo list, just like a map. It will dispel people's concerns.

even finish one small step, people will see the change.

[zheeeng]

@sgiehl In the commercial view, piwik, as a popular analytic tool, should never irritate its users and watch the controversial topic keeps boiling. In the tech view, keeping the political neutrality and respect the reality is essential to an open source project. In fact, commit https://github.com/piwik/piwik/commit/4e47c8aba3bf146292f6e9d38aa0151c383e6c33 is an absolutely political behavior and make the ppl with the opposing point have to correct it. Do you know whats the feelings of somebody groups others and express his private political opinion with an ugly and 'justice' face in front of you and sway the 'moral and democratic' stick to enforce you be nonsense shaming? Meanwhile, you have few rights to claim your voice. It hurts and it's bullying and it makes mass fray(May there is nobody enjoying this situation). Spamming is a form of marching, emotion expression, and voting, not the trolling.

[medmin]

If you use Google Maps or any proper maps, you should have known the fact. Yet, you choose to do nothing about it. You are playing dumb here. There are bad people in your team. Apparently, you are either an idiot for getting used by them, or you are just one of them. Either way, you are evil as hell.

[Jing-Luo]

@sgiehl I understand it is not a simple task and requires many efforts to add Tibet back to the map of China. But pls do it ASAP otherwise we Chinese programmers will get deeply hurt by your deed. Pls show your respect and efficiency before the matter gets worse. Even a new issue in your repo about the revision of the map would help calm people down.

[sgiehl]

In order to give an update: A discussion was started in Piwik team. I'll give an update here as soon as I can. In the meantime I will tomorrow have a closer look at the code to check what changes would be needed in detail.

[Voyager2718]

不要再乱发 PR 和 Issue 了，乱发于事无补，徒增混乱。要提出解决方案，而不是宣泄情绪。

[li-qs]

sgiehl 已经表示会将地图问题提上团队开发议题，由于涉及一些大的改动，所以需要时间。这里各位就不要再过度讨论这个话题了。如果有关于此问题的好的解决方案，可以提出来，这样才能更快更好的解决这个问题。同时也提醒开发者在类似问题上多加考虑，谨慎行事。

[sgiehl]

I've created a Pull Request to move Tibet back to China on map: https://github.com/piwik/piwik/pull/11930 It's not yet complete and needs some more testing and review as it's not trivial to show already tracked data correctly. So feel free to have a look and help testing so we hopefully can merge it soon.

[phodal]

@sgiehl Thanks for all that you did, hope it can he merge

[fengkaijia]

@sgiehl Thanks for the work!

One way to fix the old visits would be a DB update on next release, something like UPDATE `piwik_log_visit` SET `location_country` = 'cn' AND `location_region` = '14' WHERE `location_country` = 'ti' should be fine if I understand the data structure correctly.

[sgiehl]

@fengkaijia Sure, that would solve some problems. But running SQL-Queries on log_visit is something we need to avoid, as this can run for weeks on big instances.

[fengkaijia]

@sgiehl Yea I know the pain :joy:, How about updating on the next large release like 3.1 or possibly 4.0 so that sysadmin can prepare for some downtime.

[xelmirage]

From now to the final modification is done, maybe rename the "Tibet" to "Xizang Province of China" is a good transitional solution.

[kinosang]

@xelmirage I disagree it. Tibet is named Tibet Autonomous Region in English by Chinese Gov, it may be a better choice.

[xelmirage]

@kinosang Fine, I agree with you.