phoible / dev

PHOIBLE data and development.
https://phoible.org/
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Prenasalization vs nasal release #232

Closed bambooforest closed 5 years ago

bambooforest commented 5 years ago

@drammock - the immediate issue is what to do regarding the UPSID_IPA correspondences:

74 nd ⁿd nd prenasalized voiced alveolar plosive
75 dⁿ dⁿ dn nasally-released voiced alveolar plosive

https://github.com/phoible/dev/blob/master/raw-data/UPSID/UPSID_IPA_correspondences.tsv#L75-L76

if I change /dⁿ/ -> /nd/, etc., we collapse a distinction in UPSID that apparently only exists in ARRERNTE (as discussed over email and summarized for this issue below). Given that ARRERNTE doesn't have a citation in UPSID and this would bring it more in-line with with phoible conventions, I'm OK with it.

Note also open issue #61 .

Regarding prenasalization vs nasal release in phoible, there are two issues.

load("phoible.RData")
library(dplyr)
phoible %>% filter(grepl("ⁿ", Phoneme)) %>% select(LanguageName, Phoneme, InventoryID)

          LanguageName Phoneme InventoryID
1             ARRERNTE      bⁿ         201
2             ARRERNTE      dⁿ         201
3             ARRERNTE      d̠ⁿ         201
4             ARRERNTE      d̪ⁿ         201
5             ARRERNTE      ɖⁿ         201
6             ARRERNTE      ɡⁿ         201
7    Caodeng rGyalrong      ⁿb        2257
8    Caodeng rGyalrong      ⁿd        2257
9    Caodeng rGyalrong     ⁿdz        2257
10   Caodeng rGyalrong     ⁿd̠ʒ        2257
11   Caodeng rGyalrong     ⁿɖʐ        2257
12   Caodeng rGyalrong      ⁿɡ        2257
13   Caodeng rGyalrong      ⁿɢ        2257
14   Caodeng rGyalrong      ⁿɟ        2257
...
  1. ARRERNTE
  1. EURPhon inventories
drammock commented 5 years ago

if I change /dⁿ/ -> /nd/, etc., we collapse a distinction in UPSID that apparently only exists in ARRERNTE

Assuming this was a typo, but just in case: do not change /dⁿ/ → /nd/. "nasal release" should always use after the base glyph (that is official IPA, we shouldn't try to do place-matching there, and we definitely shouldn't move the nasal marker from the right to the left side for "nasal release").

bambooforest commented 5 years ago

@drammock -- sorry i was in prenaslalization land! yes, i mean changing dⁿ -> dn, etc., in line with our conventions. this would not cause any loss of contrasts in the UPSID_IPA correspondences file and it would bring the Inventory ARRERNTE (UPSID 201):

https://phoible.org/inventories/view/201

more inline with Inventory Arrernte, Central (UZ 2158):

https://phoible.org/inventories/view/2158

bambooforest commented 5 years ago

Summary: