Sample Work

[Malcolm-Decker]

I just stumbled on Pioneer and I have to say this game has a LOT of potential. I would love to contribute assets to the game. Here are a few samples of some mostly completed assets that I've done in the past.

Orbital Assault Cruiser Concept

Dropship Concept (Partially Complete)

Gas Giant Mining Colony

And here are a bunch of rendered sci-fi commodity icons for trade goods

Food

Medical Supplies

Elemental Mercury

Mechanical Parts

Algaculture Equipment

Explosives

Heat Exchangers

Guidance Systems

Sulfuric Acid

Welding Equipment

MOX Fuel Cannisters

Supercapacitors

Missiles

Graphite

Helium-3

Gas Cylinders

Palladium

Iron

Copper

Armor Plating

I have about three times that many trade goods rendered but I just wanted to give a sample. I also apologize for the excessively long post.

@Luomu @mkDanger

[Brianetta]

These are, of course, excellent.

[Luomu]

Hello there. I have some opinions.

• If you want to model ships and buildings, remember that you have to make multiple detail levels (2-4) of the model to show at different ranges
• Don't rely on big animated parts in the ships (like folding wings), because the collision system cannot handle this
• Atmosphere-capable/space-only ships are OK, the former should have a semblance of aerodynamicity to them
• Huge ships don't really have a place in Pioneer, priority should be on player-flyable ships
• I don't think the hand-drawn goods icons need replacing but feel free to continue (I would like a low-poly representation for inventory items to show in a view similar to the ship spinner... someday).
• We have not made any art style decisions so you can propose anything - preferably with images, not words ;). Doesn't have to be "photorealistic", although it might be the only direction we can agree on...

@mkDanger has posted some concepts in #1413.

[Ae-2222]

Nice work:)

A quick thought about icons which I didn't mention on IRC, for whenever it becomes necessary: some of the current icons in Pioneer depict items from the present age e.g. farm machinery, computers etc. Pioneer is set well into the far future (3200). As the art style gets more real life like (and the current icon style is fairly life like), the contrast of the time period with the items become more notable.

We'd probably want to have 'future farm machinery', 'future crates/cylinders/bottles' while still having them being instantly recognisable.. possibly by adding some technical bit that isn't present on current equipment such as crates with thrusters which can hover - this could even be part of the background. For things that should still look the same in 3200 like farm animals it's possible to incorporate the setting by using a background which could depict them grazing in a glass habitat dome, or have some genetically engineered future animal alongside a recognisable cow.

This will be more relevant after the new-ui when ui art style is looked at..

[Malcolm-Decker]

These assets were all done long ago so I don't want anyone to think I'm trying to set a precedent for the visual style in Pioneer or anything like that. I can tailor things to a different style if desired.

You are right that future farm equipment, etc will look very different, but I designed many things like the crates with the assumption that a lot of mundane items will not change much in the next thousand years or so. If we look at our past, technology has certainly become more prominent but there are things which remain mostly the same. I still cook with the same kind of cast iron skillet that people were using in the 1800's because it does the job just as well now as it did then. I guess it probably has to do with the whole "if it ain't broke don't fix it" philosophy that humankind seems to follow. While materials in the future will differ, I made these with the assumption that certain things like boxes and gas cylinders probably won't change much since they already serve their purpose pretty well. (Of course, as always, I could be terribly wrong)

This is really just an explanation of where I was coming from when I made these models, though. If you really want to see hover-crates with thrusters on them I would be more than happy to oblige :)

[Brianetta]

I don't want anyone to think I'm trying to set a precedent for the visual style in Pioneer or anything like that.

A shame - the visual style in Pioneer is there for the taking.

[Ae-2222]

I made these with the assumption that certain things like boxes and gas cylinders probably won't change much since they already serve their purpose pretty well.

Perhaps they won't, and things like crates work reasonably..bottles maybe slightly less so but that's subjective. I was coming from the perspective that incorporating the setting subtly to remind people everything is in the future won't hurt, even in cases where things can be expected to look the same, like for scenes with farm animals.

Edit: Another way of putting it is to take a crate from a thousand years ago (a barrel, or box with visible strips of wood with visible wood grain, nails, slightly uneven in shape etc.) and compare it to today's: the strips of wood and nails are gone and replaced by smooth, maybe reflective material with geometric shape/ridges etc.. Similarly a bottle would have its cork replaced with a screw on lid. In depicting things a thousand years from now it won't hurt to have a few subtle things that will surprise the player.

The Pioneer icon set does have a bunch of things that are very present day though, and which should be changed, especially with a more detailed/realistic style.

if you really want to see hover-crates with thrusters on them I would be more than happy to oblige :)

It was just an example of adding some subtle futuristic element, the best I could come up with off the top of my head..not that I particularly wanted to see crates with thrusters.

[mkDanger]

I like these - particularly the orbital assault cruiser. I've been out of touch for several weeks, but should be back into this in the near future. I'd love to work with you to come up with some cohesion.

[robn]

I love everything here. I'm not making a comment (right now) on what's suitable in terms of gameplay, but the style is great!

[Malcolm-Decker]

Well, I just got here so I don't want to overstep my bounds or try to impose my ideas too strongly. However, I would be more than happy to work with you guys on getting a consistent visual style. I'm kind of a hard sci-fi buff so I put a lot of thought into functionality. A lot of times this results in very "unnatural" looking designs but I kind of like challenging our common notions of what spaceships should look like.

That being said, you can see from my cruiser that I do still like to incorporate some aspects of ocean navy ships to keep some level of familiarity. Really hard sci-fi designs often degenerate into a boring amalgamation of pressurized boxes or cylinders attached to a reactor and some radiators. I feel the key is striking a balance between familiarity and scientific realism.

As for atmospheric ships, I kind of have two different visual themes that I use. For smaller ships I generally try to make them aerodynamic but I also have a few concepts I'm working on for some really big ships capable of atmospheric landing. For these I decided to ditch aerodynamics and take the ludicrous-amounts-of-thrust approach. I figure in 1000 years if we are capable of practical interstellar travel then we've probably solved the energy hurdle. A big enough reactor and some reaction mass can solve that pesky gravity problem with brute force. Also this should mesh well with the current thruster controls in Pioneer.

I'm currently working on one of these big atmospheric ships and when I get it far enough along I'll post up some basic renders. These designs have a lot in common with the Nostromo from Alien, albeit a little bit more well thought out as far as the positioning of all the thrusters. I know that right now all of the ships in the game are of the smaller aerodynamic type, but I would like to see the implementation of large scale stuff as well. I feel the scale of the environment is one of the strong points of Pioneer and I would like to see the spaceships demonstrate a wide variety of scale as well.

Also, in response to ae's post, you do have a very good point about subtle changes in mundane objects and I would be happy to brainstorm with you to come up with some ideas on how everyday objects might change in the future. 1000 years is admittedly a long time so you are right that a lot of common things will look radically different by then.

[Brianetta]

Well, I just got here so I don't want to overstep my bounds or try to impose my ideas too strongly.

Imposing ideas too strongly is something that happens when somebody wants their own way but won't even attempt to produce anything themselves. If somebody is prepared to commit code or artwork, that's not overstepping bounds or imposing ideas. That's contribution. There's always the chance that others won't like it, and the outside possibility that it won't be included at the end for some reason, but don't underestimate the weight of opinion accepted from people who participate and contribute.

For the record, I'm also keen on hard sci fi, but I agree that people want their familiar tropes. For your massive atmospheric ships, consider the addition of jet engines. They produce comparable thrust to a rocket without having to carry (and overcome) a load of propellant.

[fluffyfreak]

@Malcolm-Decker I like these, I also like the ships and buildings that @mkDanger has done and I think there could be room for multiple styles as long as they aren't too divergent. What I mean is that we have cars from many manufacturers, they all have different shapes and functions but we recognise them all as cars. So don't worry about imposing particular aesthetic choices on the project since there currently isn't a very strong theme going on and we could probably do with one or two anyway! :)

• Huge ships don't really have a place in Pioneer, priority should be on player-flyable ships

@Luomu I get what you're saying with this statement but I personally disagree, we're not doing anything with the big ships right now because there's not many of them and so not much obvious scope to do anything with them.

They would still make interesting additions to the game though, seeing one of those outside of a station or randomly in orbit around a planet would just be interesting for me. I setup one myself using a model I downloaded and it's a real kick to see it occasionally :) So I think we should be accepting more big static ships if that's what people feel like adding.

[Malcolm-Decker]

As far as meshing visual styles go, I don't think it should be too much of a problem. I try to include enough classic sci-fi tropes to make fans of softer sci-fi happy while still trying to make everything at least scientifically plausible.

Also the jet engine idea is a very good one that I will have to try. The current ship I'm working on is kind of built around these two massive "thrust pods" that use the energy from the main reactors to draw in ambient atmosphere and superheat it. Kind of like an old-school nuclear jet engine. It's supposed to have some onboard reaction mass tanks too for operation on planets without an atmosphere.

What got me started on this route was the assumption that any kind of interstellar FTL engine would probably use ridiculous amounts of energy to operate. I figure that the reactors should produce so much energy to support FTL that it would have more than enough power to operate these thermal atmospheric engines.

Also as far as huge ships not having a place in Pioneer, scale is a very relative thing. If a ship is space-only, its size won't really make it any harder to fly or anything like that. Operation in space will be pretty much the same as a smaller piloted craft, albeit with slightly slower acceleration and more inertia. Yes, they may not be as exciting to fly as a small, maneuverable atmospheric craft, but they will hopefully serve some other practical purpose for the player.

Also on an unrelated note, I do have a large refueling ship partially completed, I need to post a rendering of it. Someone had mentioned how to handle running out of fuel in deep space. You could have this ship controlled by AI that would be summoned by the player for in-flight refueling at a higher fuel cost or a convenience fee. It would penalize the player for running out of fuel while preventing the player from being permanently adrift.

[Brianetta]

I like that idea. Better if these refuel tankers aren't very quick to reach you - better hope they get to you before your rendezvous with that there planet...

[Malcolm-Decker]

Given the nature of time compression in pioneer I don't think it would be game breaking if you had to wait while the ship actually flies to you. You could have one or more of these ships per star system and it would essentially need to autopilot to you. I'm not sure how far you would want to take the realism though because if you run out of fuel mid-acceleration (as would almost always be the case) the fuel tanker would need to match velocity. It would actually be fairly simple but since programming isn't my strong point I'm not sure how much work it would take to make that happen.

[johnbartholomew]

I'm not sure how far you would want to take the realism though because if you run out of fuel mid-acceleration (as would almost always be the case) the fuel tanker would need to match velocity.

This would definitely be necessary. Pioneer uses Newtonian flight physics; if you run out of fuel you'll keep going at your current velocity until you hit something or quit the game. Matching velocity is "easy", mathematically, but it's also going to be expensive (in propellant) for a tanker to manage it, so I'm not sure if it's really plausible.

[johnbartholomew]

(Oh, and since I haven't said hi yet, I should say: Hi! Your sample work is really impressive, I hope you stick around!)

[Brianetta]

Matching velocity is "easy", mathematically, but it's also going to be expensive (in propellant) for a tanker to manage it, so I'm not sure if it's really plausible.

Unlimited propellant can be provided, if this ship would enhance gameplay. Rule of cool. I think this subject calls for a wiki page...

[Ae-2222]

@Malcolm-Decker : As I tend to point out Pioneer can handle absolutely huge stations (see s20dan's station where the door alone is several km big). So, for instance, your atmospheric base could be scaled/extended to be very large.

@fluffyfreak wrote: we're not doing anything with the big ships right now because there's not many of them and so not much obvious scope to do anything with them. They would still make interesting additions to the game though, seeing one of those outside of a station or randomly in orbit around a planet would just be interesting for me. I setup one myself using a model I downloaded and it's a real kick to see it occasionally :) So I think we should be accepting more big static ships if that's what people feel like adding.

Another point is that having just one or two huge ships used by one of the entities far bigger than a player, or, alternatively a huge station would serve two purposes: to demonstrate Pioneer's potential and to impress upon new people the game design aspect concerning scale and the player's relative scale in the universe. By this design aspect I mean that both the man made and natural universe are on a scale you'd expect, and not artificially shrunk down to almost nothing, like in other games (it's difficult to imagine a player could conquer and reign over entire systems with billions of people with a small number of ships the size of sea vessels).

It's possible to have things such as absolutely massive inner system transport platforms which use solar energy for ion thrusters. These might complete routes over several months being sort of moving hubs selling 0g processed things/spare mining equipment/have people permanently living on board etc..

---

The current ship I'm working on is kind of built around these two massive "thrust pods" that use the energy from the main reactors to draw in ambient atmosphere and superheat it.

These ships would be restricted to gravity wells that had a sufficiently big/dense atmosphere in the steep parts of the well.. which, of course, affects gameplay a bit, further down the road and adds an additional link between ship balance and the distribution of the physical universe..

To be operable on a lot of planets these ships might end up needing auxiliary normal thrusters added in the future, whose use has some added penalty (can't carry heavy/big cargo, some made up technical issues).

Given the thrust normal ships can sustain for long periods while using small amounts of propellent, and depending on the exact numbers, Pioneers ships probably need to have near reaction-less drives or maybe super-luminal thrust technology which is possible in a Newtonian universe.

(As things currently stand the new-ish atmospheric ship classification rests mostly on being able to fly at high speeds in an atmosphere. Given we have atmospheres of varying thickness from worlds like Mercury down to the inside of gas giants, we'd intuitively need at least some ships that have issues with atmospheres. But what fraction, and the role they might play in gameplay/balance has yet to be determined.)

[Brianetta]

Given the thrust normal ships can sustain for long periods while using small amounts of propellent, and depending on the exact numbers, Pioneers ships probably need to have near reaction-less drives or maybe super-luminal thrust technology which is possible in a Newtonian universe.

We can tweak the propellant use so that it feels right. Pioneer's ship thrusters are extraordinarily efficient. We could hand-wave the very largest ship's even greater efficiency by working on the principle that the engineering precision required for such efficiency was easier on the really big engines.

Superluminal thrust is fine by me. Our engines are already so powerful that in real life they'd only be allowed to operate over international waters, due to their city-erasing energy output. Since we're already declaring Rule of Cool on that particular side effect of our thrusters, I have no problem extending it to larger ships.

[Malcolm-Decker]

I agree 100% that pioneer should take advantage of its ability to handle scale. It isn't really that much more difficult to model and texture a massive spacecraft than to make a small, personal sized spacecraft. And game engines are typically stressed more by total polygon count than the actual size of the polygons, so there really isn't any reason not to include massive space objects and vehicles.

The idea of large mobile space stations in long, artificial orbits around the solar system is also a really good idea. Navigating to them would be kind of tricky but the change in position over time would be nifty if nothing else.

As far as the atmospheric ships go, I agree that we should faithfully represent planets with different types of atmosphere. A lot of planets in the galaxy would have no atmosphere at all. This will be aided by the fact that most of these are small dwarf planets with weak gravity. Reaction mass would have to be carried for thrusters to operate in a vacuum. This would not need to be as complex as reaction mass for an ion engine. Something as simple as liquid water could be converted to superheated steam by the ship's reactor and provide thrust. And as far as engines damaging the ground, the landing thrusters probably wouldn't hurt, but the main engine exhaust on a spacecraft capable of these speeds would be dangerous to anything in the solar system.

This also brings up a question. It seems that all thrusters are capable of equal thrust. Could/should we make it where the main (aft) thrusters provide much more acceleration than the others? Downward thrusters should still be powerful as well to aid the ease of atmospheric landings. It just seems odd for the top, side, and fore thrusters to be as powerful as the aft and bottom since it would be unnecessary weight/complexity/expense. You would only want to have one or two (for VTOL capability) really powerful engines and use weaker thrusters for maneuvering. Since we use realistic mechanics, any practical spacecraft would simply rotate 180 on its axis halfway through the flight and fire the main engines again to decelerate.

We could even leave this alone on smaller spacecraft to preserve their fun-factor and ease-of-piloting. This could also be justified by saying that a smaller, lighter craft could make use of practical omni-directional thrusters that are impractical on large, heavy spacecraft.

[Brianetta]

Thrusters can, and do, vary. Our spacecraft do have the most powerful thruster on the aft, and they do turn 180° halfway through the flight. The second most powerful thruster is the ventral thruster. Liquid water is already our propellant of choice, although we don't use it up anywhere near as quickly as we would if we were just superheating it.

[Malcolm-Decker]

As you can tell, I really haven't had a chance to play the game as much as I should, but it seems everything is already perfect for a pure VTOL ship then.

Also on an unrelated note, where do we stand on ship-to-ship docking capability right now? I saw in another issue that escape pods/EVA had already been discussed. For a large spacecraft it makes sense to have a hangar somewhere to store smaller ships to ferry cargo to and from planets or even stations. Would this be possible to implement?

It may even have to be a scripted autopilot sequence for simplicity. I would figure that a large craft would have to stop all acceleration, then open the hangar doors to launch the smaller craft. Since we use newtonian mechanics, the launched spacecraft could simply spawn inside the hangar and copy all of its movement data from the parent ship. Docking would involve the autopilot exactly matching velocity with the parent vessel and then maneuvering back into the hangar. Once docked, the model would then disappear.

While this would probably take some time to implement, we could just use an easier interim solution where the smaller ship just spawns and despawns in the general vicinity of the larger ship.

[Brianetta]

All ships in Pioneer are VTOL (or, more accurately, VTVL).

We don't have ship-to-ship docking. You'd really want to discuss the mechanics of that on the mailing list.

[robn]

@Malcolm-Decker Hi! We now have a proper modeling system (no scripts required) and a real need for models that use it so we can replace the old system. Are you interested in doing some models for inclusion within the next few weeks?

There's a list of what we need (at minimum) here: http://pioneerwiki.com/wiki/Asset_List

Of course we'd be more than happy to help with anything you need to make this happen. Feel free to reply to this or contact me privately if you're interested.

[Luomu]

pioneerspacesim.net/forum is the place to showcase art. Final submissions should be made to github.