Cargo volume instead of mass?

[bszlrd]

I was thinking that if cargo would be handled by it's volume, not by it's mass, it would add some layer of complexity for trading. Every cargo item would have an average density like 1t/m3 for water (excluding tank in this example). This way you would need to consider the amount of cargo to buy, because you might overload your ship, and it might be unable to take of from Earth for example, but you could easily take off from the Moon with the same load. If the player even has the ability to control the fuel level of the ship, than he might be able to cut some weight on that, but he will need to refuel on a space station. Thrust to weight ratio could be displayed on the InfoView screen, and also on the market screen. In the new version of blender, there's a volume calculator, so it wouldn't be too hard to calculate hold volume for the ships. (This is why I'm asking for thrust values for lua here: https://github.com/pioneerspacesim/pioneer/issues/2307 )

Is this too much complexity for the games scope/too much work for little benefit?

I think it would be a good way to increase complexity (and realism at the same time) without any arbitrary rule or anything. I'm aware of that the ships have absurdly strong engines but I think, it would be a good differentiation between a trader ship and a combat ship. Like with a fighter, you can't really transport any heavy stuff, but it can be used for lighter (and maybe more valuable, but rarer/illegal/sensitive) stuff (so smuggling and mailman missions for example), and a large transporter for any heavy lifting. Or for some logistic maneuvers, like doing multiple turns lifting portions of cargo and leaving them in orbit, then collecting them and heading out for the destination. (if somebody is interested more in that than combat, but it could be used for piracy purposes , because it might introduce cargo stashes in orbit, awaiting for the player to loot, or to defend from looting parties while a trader lifts it's stuff (new mission type for the patient pilots)).

[laarmen]

To be checked, but I think there's support for that on #1719 (even though for now every cargo item has the same mass, that's not necessarily true)

[Luomu]

My understanding is that we'll switch to kilogram accuracy in the future, but not add volume as it would become too complicated.

[corundscale]

Could we reopen this? Having ability to define stuff (not just cargo, but also equipment) in terms of both mass and volume would be extremely handy for all kind of stuff. Even setting aside cargo application it would be useful to define all sorts of equipment that stores some resource inside (like all sorts of tanks, ammo-based weapons and such) without explicitly defining all the resources on the level of underlying ship code, it would also be useful for equipment that should reserve space inside the hull, like drones that can be launched and reclaimed (how about cargo retrieval drone instead of chasing containers with whole ship, like arcade-style pickups?).

The best thing is that it's the kind of functionality that wouldn't really mess anything if we decided to leave it unused - default mass could be equivalent to volume in standard containers and GUI could be adjusted to hide unused complexity - while it would really enhance flexibility and amount of stuff possible to do within game's framework.

Besides, I don't think assuming that Pioneer's players will be baffled by the notion that 1m^3 of gold has more mass than 1m^3 of hydrogen is exactly respectful, especially that we're talking of a game where orbital mechanics is a gameplay element.

[johnbartholomew]

@corundscale I suggest we discuss it on the forum, and then an issue (or multiple issues) can be opened when there is some consensus about what the design should be.

[johnbartholomew]

Forum discussion thread