Odd extradate behaviour in list of shorthands

moewew commented 4 years ago

From https://tex.stackexchange.com/q/547427/35864

Consider the following example

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
\usepackage[style=authoryear-ibid]{biblatex}

\begin{filecontents}{\jobname.bib}
@book{Author_2020_1,
  title    = {Title B},
  author   = {Some Author},
  year     = {2020},
  location = {Someplace}
}
@book{Author_2020_2,
  title     = {Title A},
  shorthand = {MOT},
  author    = {Some Author},
  year      = {2020},
  location  = {Someplace}
}
\end{filecontents}
\addbibresource{\jobname.bib}

\begin{document}
  I am citing \autocite{Author_2020_1} and \autocite{Author_2020_2}.

  \printbiblist{shorthand}
  \printbibliography
\end{document}

I am citing (Author 2020b) and (MOT).//MOT Some Author (2020b). Title A. Someplace.//Author, Some (2020a). Title A. Someplace.//(2020b). Title B. Someplace.

Note that the extradate for the entry with the shorthand is "b" in the list of shorthands and "a" in the citations and the normal bibliography.

I suspect this has to do with refcontexts and sorting and might be more tricky than expected.

plk commented 4 years ago

May be easy to fix - strange this was never noticed before - filtering for shorthand lists (and all data lists) was done after sorting/label generation which resulted in gaps in various counters. Simply switched filtering to happen before this and it looks fine now in DEV.

moewew commented 4 years ago

Yeah, the fix helps in the MWE, but I think the issue goes deeper.

Try

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
\usepackage[style=authoryear-ibid]{biblatex}

\begin{filecontents}{\jobname.bib}
@book{Author_2020_1,
  title    = {Title B},
  shorthand = {A},
  author   = {Some Author},
  year     = {2020},
  location = {Someplace}
}
@book{Author_2020_2,
  title     = {Title A},
  shorthand = {B},
  author    = {Some Author},
  year      = {2020},
  location  = {Someplace}
}
\end{filecontents}
\addbibresource{\jobname.bib}

\begin{document}
  \autocite{Author_2020_1,Author_2020_2}

  \printbiblist{shorthand}
  \printbibliography
\end{document}

The problem is that the new refcontext for the LoS affects not just sorting, but therefore also uniqueness calculations. What people would probably expect is a LoS that only affects sorting and nothing else. Possibly in a way that the list is first sorted and processed with the global settings, where uniqueness and label... data are fixed and then just re-sorted with the new sorting scheme. This might be quite a departure from who things are done at the moment, so may need some thoughts and ideally an option (or some other way) to back out of.

plk commented 4 years ago

That really is hard to deal with - it's the first time I've seen a LoS containing extradate information - typically that doesn't happen as the abbreviations are just for titles, people etc. I'm not sure if this isn't a wild edge case? It's not that there is a new refcontext, it's a new "datalist" internally which has its own sorting (see the .bcf - there is a generic sorting scheme for LoS which is just sortshorthand/shorthand) and extradate enumeration happens after sorting.

moewew commented 4 years ago

I know that this would require a very different approach. But I think it could be useful.

When I cite a work in a document and have it appear in a LoS and the normal bibliography I think of the work as the same in both contexts and I also expect that all label and uniqueness data is the same, the only difference I possibly expect is the sort order. It is similar in case I want to sort the bibliography differently from in-text citations. Currently we are swerving the immediate issues that would arise from switching refcontext & sorting there with refcontext assignments, but how things actually work is not quite how people would naively expect it to work.

My idea roughly works like this. This scheme is not enough for all documents, but it is enough for many applications. It would essentially introduce a 'weak sorting' that does not come with a full datalist, but just a list of sorted keys.

Each entry has one primary refcontext & sorting. (This will usually be the one from the bibliography in which it is printed.) Biber will write out the full data for that entry in that context & sorting. Uniqueness and labeldata is calculated with that context & sorting.
If an entry needs to be sorted with different sorting schemes, its sorting position within that scheme should be based on its primary context & sorting (no recalculations of uniqueness or label data should take place). Biber need not output its full data in a corresponding data list again, since that data is never used, it would be enough to just output a list of sorted entries.

For

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
\usepackage[style=authoryear-ibid]{biblatex}

\begin{filecontents}{\jobname.bib}
@book{Author_2020_1,
  title    = {Title B},
  shorthand = {A},
  author   = {Some Author},
  year     = {2020},
  location = {Someplace}
}
@book{Author_2020_2,
  title     = {Title A},
  shorthand = {B},
  author    = {Some Author},
  year      = {2020},
  location  = {Someplace}
}
\end{filecontents}
\addbibresource{\jobname.bib}

\begin{document}
  \autocite{Author_2020_1,Author_2020_2}

  \printbiblist{shorthand}
  \printbibliography
\end{document}

That would mean that the .bbl could contain the datalist with fully populated entries for only the global context and it would be enough to just make the sort order known for the LoS (the data need not be repeated, it can be taken from the datalist in the global context).

Similarly in

\documentclass[british]{article}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
\usepackage{babel}
\usepackage{csquotes}

\usepackage[style=authoryear, sorting=ydnt, backend=biber]{biblatex}

\addbibresource{biblatex-examples.bib}

\begin{document}
\cite{sigfridsson,worman,geer,nussbaum,cicero,aksin}
\newrefcontext[sorting=nyt]
\printbibliography
\end{document}

we don't actually need to duplicate all entry data. All we need is the datalist from nyt and a sorted list of keys in ydnt. The ydnt datalist is never used in the example.

Example effects on .bbl files (expand to see examples)

The .bbl could be reduced from


% $ biblatex auxiliary file $
% $ biblatex bbl format version 3.1 $
% Do not modify the above lines!
%
% This is an auxiliary file used by the 'biblatex' package.
% This file may safely be deleted. It will be recreated by
% biber as required.
%
\begingroup
\makeatletter
\@ifundefined{ver@biblatex.sty}
  {\@latex@error
     {Missing 'biblatex' package}
     {The bibliography requires the 'biblatex' package.}
      \aftergroup\endinput}
  {}
\endgroup

\refsection{0}
  \datalist[entry]{nyt/global//global/global}
    \entry{aksin}{article}{}
      \name{author}{7}{}{%
        {{un=0,uniquepart=base,hash=e410078ecf298d6b83792df6633b2b08}{%
           family={Aks{ı}n},
           familyi={A\bibinitperiod},
           given={{Ö}zge},
           giveni={Ö\bibinitperiod},
           givenun=0}}%
        {{un=0,uniquepart=base,hash=e881ffc293766c81018c24d97971f9c3}{%
           family={T{ü}rkmen},
           familyi={T\bibinitperiod},
           given={Hayati},
           giveni={H\bibinitperiod},
           givenun=0}}%
        {{un=0,uniquepart=base,hash=f9be8f5362c3f1a8c57254f421602a77}{%
           family={Artok},
           familyi={A\bibinitperiod},
           given={Levent},
           giveni={L\bibinitperiod},
           givenun=0}}%
        {{un=0,uniquepart=base,hash=ec020af214a005621e2bee07a4c233b2}{%
           family={{Ç}etinkaya},
           familyi={Ç\bibinitperiod},
           given={Bekir},
           giveni={B\bibinitperiod},
           givenun=0}}%
        {{un=0,uniquepart=base,hash=3aaac037c43bc853e732168da667cd40}{%
           family={Ni},
           familyi={N\bibinitperiod},
           given={Chaoying},
           giveni={C\bibinitperiod},
           givenun=0}}%
        {{un=0,uniquepart=base,hash=7936aa08c0b52f024d7a3402b03bf380}{%
           family={B{ü}y{ü}kg{ü}ng{ö}r},
           familyi={B\bibinitperiod},
           given={Orhan},
           giveni={O\bibinitperiod},
           givenun=0}}%
        {{un=0,uniquepart=base,hash=f37529ce7811acc4b7ecb0d352a007ec}{%
           family={{Ö}zkal},
           familyi={Ö\bibinitperiod},
           given={Erhan},
           giveni={E\bibinitperiod},
           givenun=0}}%
      }
      \strng{namehash}{860705eb8ffac6e40507746c7ede79ca}
      \strng{fullhash}{f565e365b13f55b7eb75966908d10961}
      \strng{bibnamehash}{860705eb8ffac6e40507746c7ede79ca}
      \strng{authorbibnamehash}{860705eb8ffac6e40507746c7ede79ca}
      \strng{authornamehash}{860705eb8ffac6e40507746c7ede79ca}
      \strng{authorfullhash}{f565e365b13f55b7eb75966908d10961}
      \field{sortinit}{A}
      \field{sortinithash}{a3dcedd53b04d1adfd5ac303ecd5e6fa}
      \field{extradatescope}{labelyear}
      \field{labeldatesource}{}
      \field{labelnamesource}{author}
      \field{labeltitlesource}{title}
      \field{indextitle}{Effect of immobilization on catalytic characteristics}
      \field{journaltitle}{J.~Organomet. Chem.}
      \field{number}{13}
      \field{title}{Effect of immobilization on catalytic characteristics of saturated {Pd-N}-heterocyclic carbenes in {Mizoroki-Heck} reactions}
      \field{volume}{691}
      \field{year}{2006}
      \field{dateera}{ce}
      \field{pages}{3027\bibrangedash 3036}
      \range{pages}{10}
    \endentry
    \entry{cicero}{book}{}
      \name{afterword}{1}{}{%
        {{hash=cae8b8542e653c49edf36eb27467d953}{%
           family={Thraede},
           familyi={T\bibinitperiod},
           given={Klaus},
           giveni={K\bibinitperiod}}}%
      }
      \name{author}{1}{}{%
        {{un=0,uniquepart=base,hash=5300f28847a596397d754d714b49c0de}{%
           family={Cicero},
           familyi={C\bibinitperiod},
           given={Marcus\bibnamedelima Tullius},
           giveni={M\bibinitperiod\bibinitdelim T\bibinitperiod},
           givenun=0}}%
      }
      \name{editor}{1}{}{%
        {{hash=9f06c8d5931eb50eba66c87ef1600402}{%
           family={Blank-Sangmeister},
           familyi={B\bibinithyphendelim S\bibinitperiod},
           given={Ursula},
           giveni={U\bibinitperiod}}}%
      }
      \name{translator}{1}{}{%
        {{hash=9f06c8d5931eb50eba66c87ef1600402}{%
           family={Blank-Sangmeister},
           familyi={B\bibinithyphendelim S\bibinitperiod},
           given={Ursula},
           giveni={U\bibinitperiod}}}%
      }
      \list{language}{2}{%
        {langlatin}%
        {langgerman}%
      }
      \list{location}{1}{%
        {Stuttgart}%
      }
      \list{publisher}{1}{%
        {Reclam}%
      }
      \strng{namehash}{5300f28847a596397d754d714b49c0de}
      \strng{fullhash}{5300f28847a596397d754d714b49c0de}
      \strng{bibnamehash}{5300f28847a596397d754d714b49c0de}
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      \strng{afterwordfullhash}{cae8b8542e653c49edf36eb27467d953}
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      \strng{editornamehash}{9f06c8d5931eb50eba66c87ef1600402}
      \strng{editorfullhash}{9f06c8d5931eb50eba66c87ef1600402}
      \strng{translatorbibnamehash}{9f06c8d5931eb50eba66c87ef1600402}
      \strng{translatornamehash}{9f06c8d5931eb50eba66c87ef1600402}
      \strng{translatorfullhash}{9f06c8d5931eb50eba66c87ef1600402}
      \field{sortinit}{C}
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      \field{extradatescope}{labelyear}
      \field{labeldatesource}{}
      \field{labelnamesource}{author}
      \field{labeltitlesource}{shorttitle}
      \field{annotation}{A bilingual edition of Cicero's \emph{De natura deorum}, with a German translation. Note the format of the \texttt{language} field in the database file, the concatenation of the \texttt{editor} and \texttt{translator} fields, and the \texttt{afterword} field}
      \field{indextitle}{De natura deorum}
      \field{langid}{german}
      \field{shorttitle}{De natura deorum}
      \field{title}{De natura deorum. {Ü}ber das Wesen der G{ö}tter}
      \field{year}{1995}
      \field{dateera}{ce}
    \endentry
    \entry{geer}{thesis}{useprefix=false}
      \name{author}{1}{}{%
        {{un=0,uniquepart=base,hash=fd3d620c4db77185113386020788d6fd}{%
           family={Geer},
           familyi={G\bibinitperiod},
           given={Ingrid},
           giveni={I\bibinitperiod},
           givenun=0,
           prefix={de},
           prefixi={d\bibinitperiod},
           prefixun=0}}%
      }
      \list{institution}{1}{%
        {Uppsala Universitet}%
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      \list{location}{1}{%
        {Uppsala}%
      }
      \strng{namehash}{fd3d620c4db77185113386020788d6fd}
      \strng{fullhash}{fd3d620c4db77185113386020788d6fd}
      \strng{bibnamehash}{fd3d620c4db77185113386020788d6fd}
      \strng{authorbibnamehash}{fd3d620c4db77185113386020788d6fd}
      \strng{authornamehash}{fd3d620c4db77185113386020788d6fd}
      \strng{authorfullhash}{fd3d620c4db77185113386020788d6fd}
      \field{sortinit}{G}
      \field{sortinithash}{62eb2aa29549e4fdbd3cb154ec5711cb}
      \field{extradatescope}{labelyear}
      \field{labeldatesource}{}
      \field{labelnamesource}{author}
      \field{labeltitlesource}{title}
      \field{annotation}{This is a typical \texttt{thesis} entry for a PhD thesis. Note the \texttt{type} field in the database file which uses a localization key. Also note the format of the printed name and compare the \texttt{useprefix} option in the \texttt{options} field as well as \texttt{vangennep}}
      \field{langid}{english}
      \field{langidopts}{variant=british}
      \field{subtitle}{The {Orkney Earldom} of the Twelfth Century. {A} Musicological Study}
      \field{title}{Earl, Saint, Bishop, Skald~-- and Music}
      \field{type}{phdthesis}
      \field{year}{1985}
      \field{dateera}{ce}
    \endentry
    \entry{nussbaum}{book}{}
      \name{author}{1}{}{%
        {{un=0,uniquepart=base,hash=5fde8324968f94bc9b0e59c04b53b613}{%
           family={Nussbaum},
           familyi={N\bibinitperiod},
           given={Martha},
           giveni={M\bibinitperiod},
           givenun=0}}%
      }
      \list{location}{1}{%
        {Princeton}%
      }
      \list{publisher}{1}{%
        {Princeton University Press}%
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      \strng{namehash}{5fde8324968f94bc9b0e59c04b53b613}
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      \strng{authorfullhash}{5fde8324968f94bc9b0e59c04b53b613}
      \field{sortinit}{N}
      \field{sortinithash}{98cf339a479c0454fe09153a08675a15}
      \field{extradatescope}{labelyear}
      \field{labeldatesource}{}
      \field{labelnamesource}{author}
      \field{labeltitlesource}{title}
      \field{annotation}{A \texttt{book} entry. Note the \texttt{sorttitle} and \texttt{indexsorttitle} fields and the markup of the quotes in the database file}
      \field{indexsorttitle}{Aristotle's De Motu Animalium}
      \field{langid}{english}
      \field{langidopts}{variant=american}
      \field{title}{Aristotle's \mkbibquote{De Motu Animalium}}
      \field{year}{1978}
      \field{dateera}{ce}
      \keyw{secondary}
    \endentry
    \entry{sigfridsson}{article}{}
      \name{author}{2}{}{%
        {{un=0,uniquepart=base,hash=484061f383fb3b729627e12ab42c1963}{%
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           given={Emma},
           giveni={E\bibinitperiod},
           givenun=0}}%
        {{un=0,uniquepart=base,hash=b7e299b632e5db12681c2decc8ce023f}{%
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      }
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      \field{sortinit}{S}
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      \field{extradatescope}{labelyear}
      \field{labeldatesource}{}
      \field{labelnamesource}{author}
      \field{labeltitlesource}{title}
      \field{abstract}{Four methods for deriving partial atomic charges from the quantum chemical electrostatic potential (CHELP, CHELPG, Merz-Kollman, and RESP) have been compared and critically evaluated. It is shown that charges strongly depend on how and where the potential points are selected. Two alternative methods are suggested to avoid the arbitrariness in the point-selection schemes and van der Waals exclusion radii: CHELP-BOW, which also estimates the charges from the electrostatic potential, but with potential points that are Boltzmann-weighted after their occurrence in actual simulations using the energy function of the program in which the charges will be used, and CHELMO, which estimates the charges directly from the electrostatic multipole moments. Different criteria for the quality of the charges are discussed.}
      \field{annotation}{An \texttt{article} entry with \texttt{volume}, \texttt{number}, and \texttt{doi} fields. Note that the \textsc{doi} is transformed into a clickable link if \texttt{hyperref} support has been enabled}
      \field{indextitle}{Methods for deriving atomic charges}
      \field{journaltitle}{Journal of Computational Chemistry}
      \field{langid}{english}
      \field{langidopts}{variant=american}
      \field{number}{4}
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      \range{pages}{19}
      \verb{doi}
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    \endentry
    \entry{worman}{book}{}
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      }
      \list{location}{1}{%
        {Austin}%
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        {University of Texas Press}%
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      \field{extradatescope}{labelyear}
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      \field{labelnamesource}{author}
      \field{labeltitlesource}{shorttitle}
      \field{annotation}{A \texttt{book} entry. Note the \texttt{sorttitle} and \texttt{indextitle} fields}
      \field{indextitle}{Cast of Character, The}
      \field{langid}{english}
      \field{langidopts}{variant=american}
      \field{shorttitle}{Cast of Character}
      \field{subtitle}{Style in {Greek} Literature}
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      \field{dateera}{ce}
    \endentry
  \enddatalist
  \datalist[entry]{ydnt/global//global/global}
    \entry{aksin}{article}{}
      \name{author}{7}{}{%
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           family={T{ü}rkmen},
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           family={Artok},
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      \field{labelnamesource}{author}
      \field{labeltitlesource}{title}
      \field{indextitle}{Effect of immobilization on catalytic characteristics}
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to


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      \field{labeldatesource}{}
      \field{labelnamesource}{author}
      \field{labeltitlesource}{title}
      \field{indextitle}{Methods for deriving atomic charges}
      \field{journaltitle}{Journal of Computational Chemistry}
      \field{langid}{english}
      \field{langidopts}{variant=american}
      \field{number}{4}
      \field{title}{Comparison of methods for deriving atomic charges from the electrostatic potential and moments}
      \field{volume}{19}
      \field{year}{1998}
      \field{dateera}{ce}
      \field{pages}{377\bibrangedash 395}
      \range{pages}{19}
      \verb{doi}
      \verb 10.1002/(SICI)1096-987X(199803)19:4<377::AID-JCC1>3.0.CO;2-P
      \endverb
    \endentry
    \entry{worman}{book}{}
      \name{author}{1}{}{%
        {{un=0,uniquepart=base,hash=045c9cb614b0ed4bfdd1e37d400e2a7b}{%
           family={Worman},
           familyi={W\bibinitperiod},
           given={Nancy},
           giveni={N\bibinitperiod},
           givenun=0}}%
      }
      \list{location}{1}{%
        {Austin}%
      }
      \list{publisher}{1}{%
        {University of Texas Press}%
      }
      \strng{namehash}{045c9cb614b0ed4bfdd1e37d400e2a7b}
      \strng{fullhash}{045c9cb614b0ed4bfdd1e37d400e2a7b}
      \strng{bibnamehash}{045c9cb614b0ed4bfdd1e37d400e2a7b}
      \strng{authorbibnamehash}{045c9cb614b0ed4bfdd1e37d400e2a7b}
      \strng{authornamehash}{045c9cb614b0ed4bfdd1e37d400e2a7b}
      \strng{authorfullhash}{045c9cb614b0ed4bfdd1e37d400e2a7b}
      \field{sortinit}{W}
      \field{sortinithash}{1af34bd8c148ffb32de1494636b49713}
      \field{extradatescope}{labelyear}
      \field{labeldatesource}{}
      \field{labelnamesource}{author}
      \field{labeltitlesource}{shorttitle}
      \field{indextitle}{Cast of Character, The}
      \field{langid}{english}
      \field{langidopts}{variant=american}
      \field{shorttitle}{Cast of Character}
      \field{subtitle}{Style in {Greek} Literature}
      \field{title}{The Cast of Character}
      \field{year}{2002}
      \field{dateera}{ce}
    \endentry
  \enddatalist
  \sortlist{ydnt/global//global/global}
    {aksin,worman,sigfridsson,cicero,geer,nussbaum}
  \endsortlist
\endrefsection
\endinput

For many uses that appears to be enough. Of course there are still cases where one may want real duplication of data and recalculation of unqieuenss and label data, but I think this new scheme would be tremendously useful for many simple cases. I haven't thought this thorugh completely and I'm sure there are some holes in my thought process for what I have already thought about, so this is not something I want to ask you to implement right away, but it may be food for thought.

moewew commented 4 years ago

For 'simulation' purposes, here is a workaround that lets entries in a biblist take their entry data from the default context for each entry, so that only the sorting is controlled by the biblist context & sorting.

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
\usepackage[style=authoryear-ibid]{biblatex}

\makeatletter
\def\blx@biblistitem#1{%
  \blx@getrefcontext{#1}%
  \blx@ifdata{#1}
    {\begingroup
     \blx@getdata{#1}%
     \blx@bibcheck
     \iftoggle{blx@skipentry}{}{%
       \blx@setdefaultrefcontext{#1}%
       \global\let\blx@noitem\@empty
       \blx@setoptions@type\abx@field@entrytype
       \blx@setoptions@entry
       \addtocounter{instcount}\@ne
       \iftoggle{blx@labelnumber}
         {\blx@bbl@locallabelnumberwidth}
         {}%
       \iftoggle{blx@labelalpha}
         {\blx@bbl@locallabelalphawidth}
         {}%
       \nottoggle{blx@skipbiblist}
         {\blx@bbl@locallabelfields}
         {}%
       \csuse{blx@item@\blx@theenv}\relax
       \csuse{blx@hook@biblistitem@\blx@thebiblist}%
       \blx@execute
       \blx@initunit
       \blx@beglangbib
       \bibsentence
       \blx@pagetracker
       \blx@driver{\blx@thebiblistdriver}%
       \blx@postpunct
       \blx@endlangbib}%
     \endgroup}
    {}}
\makeatother

\begin{filecontents}{\jobname.bib}
@book{Author_2020,
  title    = {Some Title},
  author   = {Some Author},
  year     = {2020},
  location = {Someplace}
}
@book{Author_2020_2,
  title     = {Some Other Title},
  shorthand = {MOT},
  author    = {Some Author},
  year      = {2020},
  location  = {Someplace}
}

@book{Buthor_2020_1,
  title    = {Some Title},
  author   = {Some Buthor},
  year     = {2020},
  location = {Someplace}
}
@book{Buthor_2020_2,
  title     = {Some Title},
  shorthand = {ZOT},
  author    = {Some Buthor},
  year      = {2020},
  location  = {Someplace}
}
@book{Buthor_2020_3,
  title    = {Some Title},
  author   = {Some Buthor},
  year     = {2020},
  location = {Someplace}
}
\end{filecontents}
\addbibresource{\jobname.bib}

\begin{document}
  I am citing \autocite{Author_2020} and \autocite{Author_2020_2}.

  I am citing \autocite{Buthor_2020_1,Buthor_2020_2,Buthor_2020_3}.

  \printbiblist{shorthand}
  \printbibliography
\end{document}

That gives the desired/expected result here.

plk commented 4 years ago

This needs some thinking about - I'm not sure an entry has a "primary" refcontext as there could be the same entry in multiple lists sorted differently and therefore with differing extradate and then it's not clear which list would be the one a LoS containing the entry should replicate ...

moewew commented 4 years ago

Oh yeah. My 'scheme' will definitely not be the right thing for all uses. I happen to think it would be useful (or at least not detrimental) for a lot of basic use cases, but there are going to be cases where you want your data to stay separate (i.e. where separate data lists are good).

That's why it would have to be an option or would maybe have a slightly different name/interface than current sorting.

plk / biblatex

Odd extradate behaviour in list of shorthands #1009