shaaos zmanios of 1/10, 1/8, and 1/6

[pnemonic78]

On 2018 Mar 29, at 20:48, m n word###@hotmail.com wrote:

Thank you for your response, but it simply does not allow or recognize any new location, nor can the elevation be manually entered. My street which was listed in a previous version of your app, is no longer found.

Also, I would like to mention that there is an essential time missing across the board, that is shaaos zmanios of 1/10, 1/8, and 1/6, which are much more important than the degrees which is only a very recently included calculation. (In the Tshuvos Divrei Yatziv Orach Chaim Siman 110, paragraphs 11 and 14, the opinion is given not even to consider degrees at all, since it is not mentioned in Chazal or in any of the Poskim, and requires complicated calculations with special calculators or computers). In addition, I would add that many modern calendars use the degrees specifically to be maikel since the times for tzeis are often earlier than the other 2 opinions of equal minutes, or zmanios. In any event, I am not requesting to remove the degrees, just to include the shaaos zmanios of 1/10, 1/8, and 1/6, which are essential and mentioned by Chazal and all of the Poskim.

[KosherJava]

Note that your correspondent in incorrect. Zmaniyos (% of the day) times were not mentioned by Chazal. The earliest written reference that we have to this concept is the Minchas Cohen by Avraham HaCohen Pimentel, the Rabbi of Amsterdam. It was published in 1668. This is later than the earliest degree based printed reference that was in the Sefer Eilim from the Yashar Micandia published in 1629. The earliest that degree based zmanim were in print, was in a luach published in 1766 (though as mentioned, the concept was mentioned much earlier in the Sefer Eilim). The earliest that there was a Zmaniyos based printed calendar was much later. Mentioning that Chazal referred to zmaniyos is incorrect, and as said, it postdates degree based calculations. Also note that Zmaniyos calculations do not match reality. If they did, the winter would have the shortest twilight, when in fact the shortest is at the equinox. That said, there are some who follow the percent of the day opinion, and it is supported by the KosherJava zmanim library.

[pnemonic78]

From: M K word###@hotmail.com Date: Sunday, 22 November 2020 at 18:44

Thank you for your response. At the moment I am a bit pressed for time, so right now I can only reply briefly, and bli neder, I hope to devote more time and research to a lengthier composition. You have mentioned a fascinating chakira. In all honesty, I don't think I have ever heard that zamniyos are not mentioned in the gemara or elsewhere. There is a minor opinion in some Poskim that the 3 hours for Krias Shema are regular hours, but we do not posken that way, and I am not sure if they meant this. In terms of earliest sources, Rabbeinu Avraham Bar Chiyya HaNasi mentions this idea in his Sefer HaIbur. The Rambam mentions this numerous times in his commentary on the Mishnah, and in his responsa. Even though there were those who claimed that the correct text was "regular hours," the majority hold that the correct reading is zmaniyos. There is a new translation of the Mishnah Commentary of the Rambam, but I don't have access to it at the moment. The Chasam Sofer speaks about this in great length in his responsa (Orach Chaim siman 199). The Pardes Yosef (Shmos 33, 5) brings a proof from Pesachim 12. Hope bli neder to continue at a later time. B'Kovod Rav

[KosherJava]

Thank you for your response.. As far as zmaniyos, I think that you misunderstood me. I am not referring to sha'os shavos vs zmaniyos. I am referring to the time of bain hashmashos being a percent of the day that was the subject of the original request from you (and that clarification was in parenthesis in my original reply) . In my library I refer to it as zmanis and I believe I use the term that way as seen in various seforim . An example in the documentation can be see at https://kosherjava.com/zmanim/docs/api/com/kosherjava/zmanim/ComplexZmanimCalendar.html#getAlos72Zmanis() . Where do you see any source prior to the Minchas Cohen referring to the length of bain hashmashos as 1/6, 1/8 or 1/10 (etc) of the day? Where in the sefer Haibur do you see this? What maamar, what shaar? Thanks