Security ticker symbol is not available in various places in the app

[pfalcon]

I guess it's fair to say that quite many people are more familiar with the security symbols rather than name. To start with, some companies have symbols rather different from their names. But real issue is with funds (ETFs) - their names are oftentimes mouthful, regalia- and buzzword-ridden. So again, their tickers are more familiar to many people than their full names.

Yet, there're a number of places in PP UI where symbol is not shown, mostly in the Reports section.

One example already fixed https://github.com/portfolio-performance/portfolio/issues/3292, but I'd like to address this consistently throughout the app. Initial looking shows that there's no single place to fix it, so multiple patches will be required, to be done over time. So, I open this umbrella ticket to reference from individual patches.

The overall plan would be to address all of these places:

• Input elements. The idea is to use format "SYMBOL (Security Name)" instead of current "Security Name"
• Chart labels - likewise.
• For tabular data, introduce a separate column, to allow independent sorting on symbols vs name.

[pfalcon]

Copying some discussion from https://github.com/portfolio-performance/portfolio/pull/4183 here:

From @buchen :

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the change is small - from a coding perspective - but has a big impact on the UI.

I agree there is value in improving the display of security names. But I do not think that the ticker symbol is the right way to go. At least not the way for everybody. In Germany for example, I don't think that the ticker is commonly used. Personally, I only configure it if I need it to retrieve historical prices from Yahoo Finance and similar sites. Adding the ISIN is then an option, but I do not think I want to force this on all users.

If you are very attached to the feature (and don't want to maintain it in your local branch), then I would be willing to merge a "configurable version" of this feature. Somehow along this user story.

As a I user, I want to customize the display string for instruments used in dropdown boxes, and chart legends. I can go to the settings and configure the default display string of an instrument. I can choose to prefix it with ISIN, WKN, or Ticker (or maybe any other attribute configured for instruments).

What do you think?

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[pfalcon]

@buchen :

What do you think?

I'd like to start with addressing this:

and don't want to maintain it in your local branch

I effectively a personal fork of PP with close to 100 commits on top of master. Of course, most of them aren't of the quality suitable for mainline. Now that I'm sure there's nothing around coming even close to PP in functionality (so it does make sense to invest more effort into it vs something else), I'd like to do motions to flush at least something to mainline (or find other reasons for not doing so besides just my laziness).

Personally, I only configure it if I need it to retrieve historical prices from Yahoo Finance and similar sites.

I figured that such situation has something to do with your personal preferences/habits. And while it might be ok to just have local changes for desktop PP, I checked mobile PP version, and the situation is only "worse" there - I barely see tickers there at all, while screen width is much smaller, so looking at just name is only harder. So, I'm really keen to somehow find a solution to this, which you could also propagate to the mobile version ;-).

In Germany for example, I don't think that the ticker is commonly used.

I wondered how to interpret that, and assume you mean "At German stock exchanges, tickers are not commonly used". As an outsider, I was curious to quickly check pros/cons for that. So, I googled "DAX index constituents". First I arrived at https://www.boerse-frankfurt.de/indices/dax/constituents , which indeed doesn't show a ticker in the list at all. Instead, there's WKN, with noting that some (but mostly as an exception) being human-friendly, like "BASF11". boerse-frankfurt.de allows to search by symbol, but then search preview dropdown still doesn't show it (only name and ISIN). Individual security page, like https://www.boerse-frankfurt.de/equity/sap-se , shows symbol, but 3rd after ISIN and WKN.

But my next link was https://www.marketscreener.com/quote/index/DAX-7395/components/ , that still shows names in the list, but chart popups at least have both name and ticker. But the most important (for my argumentation) is the tree map at the center - it uses tickers and only tickers. And sorry, but even using 6-char WKNs instead of normally-3-chars tickers would make it much less legible. My next motion was "but it must be US site!" but nope, checking, it's actually a French one.

So, my summary would be: it seems to be true statement that "at German exchanges, the tickers/symbols are less commonly used". But their usefulness still shouldn't be discounted. What German people use in colloquial communication on forums, etc.? Is that WKN, as it still reasonably small and easy to memorize? I can believe that, but WKN is still a German markets phenomenon. I'd argue it's close to be "German ticker", and then many German users perhaps would want to have WKN in "symbol" field.

I would be willing to merge a "configurable version" of this feature. Somehow along this user story.

... I can choose to prefix it with ISIN, WKN, or Ticker (or maybe any other attribute configured for instruments).

So, I wrote all the above to define the scope of the alternative solution. I myself a big fan of configurability, and of more generic solutions, especially if more generic solution comes for "free" (add a field to a parent class instead of subclass, skip a "positive-only" check and let people enter negative numbers even if normally a value would be positive, etc.). Here, additional configurability doesn't come for free. It's more code to implement, and overall makes PP more complex (and it's already pretty complex). So, you want configurability, I got that, but how about limiting it to just a checkbox of old vs new format, using ticker as the only choice? I don't think that the option to select ISIN or WKN really offers good benefits vs implementation effort ratio. Again, the idea is to let users to quickly recognize securities, based on the idea that many people (spread around the world, but perhaps targeting more of US markets) are familiar with ticker symbols. ISIN doesn't come as a human-friendly identifier. I don't think there're people who learn by heart an entire ISIN (multiplied by many securities). I may imagine that some learn to recognize a few different securities by e.g. last few digits of ISIN, but that would be forced used due to a lack of better short ID (like ticker, again). WKN does look like useful to German users, but my argument above is that it's effectively a German ticker symbol, and the people might consider just putting it in the "symbol" field.

[pfalcon]

Example of tree map in PP "before" and "after". I fail to see how using tickers is not an obvious improvement (well, "after" has more tweaks than just using tickers). And that's with the "kommer" file which is a toy example with just a handful of securiteis. The realistic test example should be something like SP500 constituents. Then "before" wouldn't be legible at all, while something would be visible with "after".

Before:

After:

[buchen]

I effectively a personal fork of PP with close to 100 commits on top of master.

Wow. :+1:

I can believe that, but WKN is still a German markets phenomenon. I'd argue it's close to be "German ticker", and then many German users perhaps would want to have WKN in "symbol" field.

Well, WKN stands the shortcut for the German "instrument identification number". In that way, yes, it is the German ticker. It is from a time before ISIN (and mostly they have been grandfathered into the ISIN as you can see with BASF: the WKN is BASF11 and the ISIN is DE000BASF1111).

Just like CUSIP is it for Australian exchanges (support also requested). And the ticker is it for American exchanges. And, yes, due to the dominance of the exchanges but also the IT systems, its use is spreading.

many German users perhaps would want to have WKN in "symbol" field

That does not make sense for me. First, there is the WKN field already and I cannot assume it does not exist. Second, the WKN is used to identify instruments from PDF Documents (which rarely include ticker symbols in Germany). Third, the ticker is already "overloaded" which means it looses its semantic meaning and usefulness (for example, Australian users enter the CUSIP for PDF detection but it is also used for historical prices. It concatenates the exchange which is only needed for exchanges apart from the cases where one instrument has different tickers at different stocke exchanges).

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BTW, the name of an instrument is editable. The user can shorten the name any way he sees fit. He can prefix the name with the ticker. Use the ticker without the exchange rate suffix (that is needed for the historical prices).

An alternative option could also be offer a "short display name" field, which, if given, will be used.

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That said, I agree that prefixing the name (or alternatively only using an identifier) can increase the readability of charts. Particularly because the names of instruments often contain the vendor ("iShares...") and hence have the same prefix.

So, you want configurability, I got that, but how about limiting it to just a checkbox of old vs new format, using ticker as the only choice?

It not that I want configurability, but I do not think ticker is identifier that the tens of thousand PP users will agree on. And I agree that configurability adds complexity. But I am willing to add this complexity, because I see your point on the use of the name.

For me the question is also, is the use identical for selection drop down boxes (say the dialog to enter a purchase) and the charts (say inside the chart) or in the chart legend (next to the actual chart). I'd say the first and third case one would prefix the name, while inside the charts one would use only the identifier.

[pfalcon]

@buchen : Thanks for the detailed reply! But reading into arguments like:

Second, the WKN is used to identify instruments from PDF Documents (which rarely include ticker symbols in Germany).

- I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing. The talk is not about the ultimate, best, or unambiguous way to identify securities. The talk is about allowing users, who get used to it, to see a short, concise, easily memorable security identifier. Let it be ambiguous, and working only in a limited (albeit arguably wide) scope. No problem that it's ambiguous/overloaded, somehow, people who use, get used to deal with its limitation. Because if it allows to ease of use in 80% of cases, that's already a win.

By definition (at least by definition of the target audience), that's ticker symbol. None of WKN, CUSIP, ISIN, FIGI can serve that purpose, because they're intended to be "formally correct" identifiers, and thus not human-friendly (you can't expect wide audiences (millions of people) to memorize those identifiers). Instead, we're looking for "colloquially useful and practical" identifier.

Let me argue the case with "user story from reality":

1. Here's are typical headlines of Reddit posts:
   • How does 60% or 70% VXUS sound? With the rest being in VOO
   • How to buy JEPQ in Europe?
   • ABALX Opinions Please
2. Here're typical headlines of Yahoo Finance posts:
   • Should SPDR S&P 500 ETF (SPY) Be on Your Investing Radar?
   • Is John Hancock Multifactor Large Cap ETF (JHML) a Strong ETF Right...
     3. Here're typical headlines of Seeking Alpha posts:
   • PDI: The Case For Bond CEFs, PIMCO Leads
   • JPC: Questionable Distribution Sustainability
   • Stop Overthinking And Buy XLK

Again, all these headlines are absolutely typical. Specific analysis is:

1. On "colloquial communication" sites like Reddit, people just prefer to use tickets (especially for ETFs/funds). That's because nobody really remembers all those fund names. To get ABALX's name, one would need to search for ticker and copy-paste the fund name, why to do that if one can write ABALX directly?
2. Yahoo Finance, trying to be a mainstream media, has an editor who watches that titles were outsider-friendly (but still insider-friendly too of course), and use format of "name (symbol)".
3. Seeking Alpha, being a cross between Reddit and YF, prefer to be concise and to the point, and use just symbols too. It's kind of convention: https://seekingalpha.com/etfs-and-funds . If, among the concise and to the point articles, one will be titled as "John Hancock Multifactor Large Cap ETF - what to expect from distributions", then the people will likely skip an article with such a mouthful title, and read something more precise instead, which is the opposite of what authors writing articles want, so it's in their best interest to use symbols.

So, the above sets the stage. Millions of people got used to the situation above - that securities are presented to them in the form of symbols. It's definitely not everyone, and maybe whole countries somewhere don't use tickers. It's still millions of people which use them. Now, when they come to PP, otherwise the great app, they ... don't feel at home. Because at various places throughout the app, they don't see critical piece of information they got used to - a security symbol. And what I'm trying to do is to extend PP's target audience to them too, so they felt at home.

[pfalcon]

BTW, the name of an instrument is editable. The user can shorten the name any way he sees fit. He can prefix the name with the ticker.

I understand that that's kind of reply to my proposition of German users to put WKN into ticker field, if they'd like to see that WKN shown by security name ;-). Well, my reply would be that a security name is a security name and "symbol (name)" isn't really a name per se.

An alternative option could also be offer a "short display name" field, which, if given, will be used.

Not a solution I seek for. Again, I don't look for the "most general" solution, I look for the "most practical" one, based on actual widely-used cases.

It not that I want configurability, but I do not think ticker is identifier that the tens of thousand PP users will agree on.

My argument is that there're potential millions of users who are used to tickers ;-). But I understand your desire to preserve familiar environment for people who aren't used to them. Then let's start with a boolean preference. Someone has a usecase for WKNs to be used instead of tickers? Let them argue and implement it.

For me the question is also, is the use identical for selection drop down boxes (say the dialog to enter a purchase) and the charts (say inside the chart) or in the chart legend (next to the actual chart). I'd say the first and third case one would prefix the name, while inside the charts one would use only the identifier.

It's hard to plan ahead the ideal UX. It's better to do it incrementally to keep complexity at bay. And I'd actually let complexity guide it:

• First choice is just switch to new format. Already dismissed.
• If that doesn't work, next choice is to have single boolean setting to control everything.
• If that proves to be too inflexible, more fine-grained control can be added (later).

[pfalcon]

Then let's start with a boolean preference. If that doesn't work, next choice is to have single boolean setting to control everything.

With that in mind I posted https://github.com/portfolio-performance/portfolio/pull/4211 (has screenshots).