Setting up a Custom MSX machine

[Wierzbowsky]

Webmsx has the possibility to run ROMs and DSK from Internet. Please add a feature to use specific MSX machine's ROMs that could be loaded from Internet as well. For example in the "Select Machine" add a dialog called "Custom MSX". From this dialog a user should be able to select the machine type (MSX1/2/2+), color system (PAL/NTSC), region (USA/EU/JAPAN) and the machine's BIOS file(s). Thanks.

Example: I would like to run the specific MSX2 machine - the Yamaha MSX2 YIS503IIIR to be able to see the Russian letters in the software that I use. There's no such possibility at the moment. But replacing the BIOS ROM and SUBROM that you use in a similar MSX2 configuration with the specific Russian-localized machine's BIOS and SUBROM files would solve the problem.

[ppeccin]

Nice!!!

What you mean CP/M is not working? What is the expected behavior? Something may be wrong... When I select the "YIS503III" machine, I see it has no disk drives. Is that correct?

But... When I try the command _CPM it works, and shows a drive "H>" prompt. Some kind of RAM drive?

Paulo

On Sat, Jul 20, 2019 at 11:46 AM Alexey Podrezov notifications@github.com wrote:

Good job! It works almost perfectly with all Russian MSX machines. I've made the custom config for 3 known Russian machines:

https://webmsx.org/?CONFIG_URL=http://www.podrezov.com/webmsx/rusyamahas.json

Everything works except the CP/M on YIS503III. The YIS503SUB.ROM contains CP/M ROM at address #4000. But it is not activated with the _CPM command. Could be a bug in the emulator?

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[Wierzbowsky]

Correct. The 503 machines have no disk drives.

I can't run CP/M when I start from my own configuration.

[ppeccin]

It works from the link you provided... How?

On Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 15:52 Alexey Podrezov notifications@github.com wrote:

Correct. The 503 machines have no disk drives.

I can't run CP/M when I start from my own configuration.

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[Wierzbowsky]

Cleared cache and cookies and now it works. Perfect!

[ppeccin]

But why CPM with no drives?

On Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 17:10 Alexey Podrezov notifications@github.com wrote:

Cleared cache and cookies and now it works. Perfect!

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[Wierzbowsky]

That was supposed to be a network-aware module. No one really used it.

[mr-GreyWolf]

Errors while executing grunt:

Running "uglify:emuPart" (uglify) task
...
WARN: Output exceeds 7900 characters

...

Running "uglify:emuPart_cbios" (uglify) task
...
WARN: Output exceeds 7900 characters

[ppeccin]

Not errors. Just warnings! Did you actually had a problem?

Paulo

On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 5:21 AM mr-GreyWolf notifications@github.com wrote:

Errors while executing grunt:

Running "uglify:emuPart" (uglify) task ... WARN: Output exceeds 7900 characters

...

Running "uglify:emuPart_cbios" (uglify) task ... WARN: Output exceeds 7900 characters

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[mr-GreyWolf]

Not errors. Just warnings! Did you actually had a problem? Paulo

But after assembly does not work...

[ppeccin]

Well, I need to know what are you trying to do. Why do you need to run the grunt tasks?

They are meant only as a tool for me to pack and prepare the release files. Some manual steps may be required, those tasks are not a complete "building" mechanism.

Paulo

On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 1:09 PM mr-GreyWolf notifications@github.com wrote:

Not errors. Just warnings! Did you actually had a problem? Paulo … <#m-3049220652117532228> On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 5:21 AM mr-GreyWolf @.**> wrote: Errors while executing grunt*: Running "uglify:emuPart" (uglify) task ... WARN: Output exceeds 7900 characters ... Running "uglify:emuPart_cbios" (uglify) task ... WARN: Output exceeds 7900 characters — You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#43 https://github.com/ppeccin/WebMSX/issues/43?email_source=notifications&email_token=AAFOLIEDFKAPCC6MVBBBPB3QGOHAVA5CNFSM4HHV5XX2YY3PNVWWK3TUL52HS4DFVREXG43VMVBW63LNMVXHJKTDN5WW2ZLOORPWSZGOD5DVGOQ#issuecomment-524768058>, or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAFOLIGSY4HH3QLBCPJ4ODTQGOHAVANCNFSM4HHV5XXQ .

But after assembly does not work...

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[mr-GreyWolf]

Well, I need to know what are you trying to do. Why do you need to run the grunt tasks? They are meant only as a tool for me to pack and prepare the release files. Some manual steps may be required, those tasks are not a complete "building" mechanism.

I want to make a Russian keyboard layout.

[ppeccin]

I see. Configuring the keys mapping is not enough?

I plan to add an option to define custom mappings inside the custom config files, but as of now it's not possible You have to use the setup interface to create custom mappings.

But even if you want to do this right now, you don't need to rebuild the project. You can just add a new keyboard like it is made in the BuiltInKeyboards.js file. After loading the main emulator file, just add some JS code on your page, or in a separate js file, that adds some entries in the wmsx.BuiltInKeyboards object.

It should work just as another build in keyboard.

Paulo

On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 2:50 PM mr-GreyWolf notifications@github.com wrote:

Well, I need to know what are you trying to do. Why do you need to run the grunt tasks? They are meant only as a tool for me to pack and prepare the release files. Some manual steps may be required, those tasks are not a complete "building" mechanism.

I want to make a Russian keyboard layout.

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[mr-GreyWolf]

I see. Configuring the keys mapping is not enough? I plan to add an option to define custom mappings inside the custom config files, but as of now it's not possible You have to use the setup interface to create custom mappings. But even if you want to do this right now, you don't need to rebuild the project. You can just add a new keyboard like it is made in the BuiltInKeyboards.js file. After loading the main emulator file, just add some JS code on your page, or in a separate js file, that adds some entries in the wmsx.BuiltInKeyboards object. It should work just as another build in keyboard. Paulo

Thank you! I'll try to do that.

[mr-GreyWolf]

Here is complete information about MSX Russification: https://sysadminmosaic.ru/msx/russification

[mr-GreyWolf]

For Russian keyboard need special keyboard matrix. In this file Russian keyboard matrix by keys.

if need i desribe matrix in line/columns format.

[ppeccin]

Why is that? You would only need to map the host keys to the MSX keys just as if this were an English machine. The rest is done by the BIOS, right?

Peccin

On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 1:06 PM mr-GreyWolf notifications@github.com wrote:

For Russian keyboard need special keyboard matrix. In this file https://github.com/mr-GreyWolf/MSX-Russification/blob/master/keyboard/MSX.txt Russian keyboard matrix by keys if need i desribe matrix in line/columns format.

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[mr-GreyWolf]

In BuiltInKeyboards.js file only English keys, but not other. Please read (in English) this Document or my colorful documentation

[ppeccin]

The ASCII table or other character translations and additions is done by the ROM BIOS. The emulator does not know anything about that! It only maps host keys to the hardware rows/columns on the MSX keyboard. It's the BIOS who reads the row/column of keys pressed and translates that to characters.

You only need to create/setup a key mapping...

Am I missing something?

On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 2:38 PM mr-GreyWolf notifications@github.com wrote:

In BuiltInKeyboards.js file only English keys (1-127) but not other. Please read (in English) this Doc https://www.msx.org/wiki/MSX_font#Russian

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[ppeccin]

Also, please notice that int the wmsx.DOMKeys variable in the code, these are the HOST keys, as the browser reports them when pressed/released. Its the international convention used by the browser in ALL languages.

Its a completely different concept; Its a PC/Browser thing, it has nothing to do with the MSX keys or characters.

Please tell me, if load you custom machine config and then use the Setup Screen to manually setup your host keys mapping, does it work?

On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 2:48 PM Paulo Peccin ppeccin@gmail.com wrote:

The ASCII table or other character translations and additions is done by the ROM BIOS. The emulator does not know anything about that! It only maps host keys to the hardware rows/columns on the MSX keyboard. It's the BIOS who reads the row/column of keys pressed and translates that to characters.

You only need to create/setup a key mapping...

Am I missing something?

On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 2:38 PM mr-GreyWolf notifications@github.com wrote:

In BuiltInKeyboards.js file only English keys (1-127) but not other. Please read (in English) this Doc https://www.msx.org/wiki/MSX_font#Russian

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[mr-GreyWolf]

Now works by changing the keyboard matrix in BIOS file. I want to use the original BIOS file.

[ppeccin]

I'm sorry mr-GreyWolf, I really cannot see what the problem is, neither how to solve it.

Please give me an example of what you are UNABLE to do or type if you use your original Russian BIOS and a custom key mapping.

I want to help you, but maybe it would be better if you don't try to tell me how to solve the problem, but instead show me what is WRONG, with examples of the problem. Maybe record a video, or use pictures, etc.

On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 3:02 PM mr-GreyWolf notifications@github.com wrote:

Now works by changing the keyboard matrix in BIOS file. I want to use the original BIOS file.

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[mr-GreyWolf]

How to set up a new keyboard matrix in KeyboardKeys.js ? Because the Russian keyboard matrix is different from the International.

[ppeccin]

You don't need to, unless you want to change the appearance of the on-screen keyboard (on the mobile interface). Those are just the key texts that are shown in keyboards on the screen and config dialog.

They don't "define" the keyboard matrix and have no effect inside the emulation. As I said before, it is the BIOS that interprets the key presses.

Again, if you don't tell me the problem, I can't help you. You keep asking and giving solutions to a problem you still didn't tell me.

On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 3:33 PM mr-GreyWolf notifications@github.com wrote:

How to set up a new keyboard matrix in KeyboardKeys.js ?

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[mr-GreyWolf]

I want to do new, Russian keyboard matrix in KeyboardKeys.js!

Please compare International and Russian keyboard matrix tables:

• International
• Russian

Description of format this files:

• each line for one Number Key in matrix.
• part 1 (48 symbol keys) given a symbol code for each of the 6 modes.
• part 2 (16 special keys) given one symbol code.

Modes:

1. No modifiers
2. With the SHIFT key pressed
3. With the GRAPH key pressed
4. With the keys pressed GRAPH + SHIFT
5. With the CODE key pressed
6. With the CODE + SHIFT keys pressed

Parts of keyboard matrix in BIOS:

1. offset 0x0DA5, length 288 bytes
2. offset 0x1033, length 40 bytes

[ppeccin]

mr-GreyWolf I want to help you, but please... You need to tell me what is wrong. What problem are you having.

Please stop trying to find the solution yourself and tell me what the problem is, so I can think of a solution.

Thanks, Paulo

On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 3:05 AM mr-GreyWolf notifications@github.com wrote:

How to set up a new keyboard matrix in KeyboardKeys.js Pleale compare International and Russian keyboard matrix:

https://github.com/mr-GreyWolf/MSX-Russification/blob/master/keyboard/MSX_International.txt

https://github.com/mr-GreyWolf/MSX-Russification/blob/master/keyboard/MSX.txt

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[mr-GreyWolf]

The problem is that the International keyboard matrix table is different from the Russian.

[ppeccin]

That is still not a description of the problem mr-GreyWolf... That is already a technical analysis of the problem, with a possible modification in the code you believe would solve the issue.

But that is YOUR analysis, which may be the wrong direction to go. I need to understand the original problem so I can also make MY analysis.

I need you to be the PATIENT for a moment, not the DOCTOR, you understand? You are telling me what may be the MEDICINE, the treatment, the solution to your problem. You are not telling me the SYMPTOMS you get. I need to know where your pain is, so I can identify the DISEASE...

I need you to tell me what you get wrong, what is the incorrect behavior you are experiencing as a USER. What is the problem from a user's perspective? What is different from the expected behavior for a common person using the emulator?

A user does not know what a keyboard matrix is, do you understand?

Please send me a test case, like:

When a user does XXXX, The EXPECTED behavior would be YYYYY, But the OBSERVED (wrong) behavior is ZZZZ.

Paulo

On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 12:39 PM mr-GreyWolf notifications@github.com wrote:

The problem is that the International keyboard matrix table is different from the Russian.

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[mr-GreyWolf]

I make test machine. Russian letters work fine, but problems with numbers (shifted left by one key) and Latin letters, for Latin letters layout is JCUKEN (not QWERTY). Please try, press the keys.

[ppeccin]

You mean it works ok with the "PYC" locked, and not ok with it unlocked?

If that is the case, as I was trying to explain, you will have to modify the BIOS.

The emulator does not know anything about that. It only emulates the keyboard hardware, mapping host keys to a FIXED ROW/COLUMN pair.

Its impossible to change which character is inputted for each key. This is the responsibility of the BIOS.

Paulo

On Fri, Aug 30, 2019 at 3:39 AM mr-GreyWolf notifications@github.com wrote:

I make test machine https://sysadminmosaic.ru/wmsx/?CONFIG_URL=custom/test-yis805r2.json Russian letters work fine, but problems with numbers and Latin letters, for Latin letters layout JCUKEN (not QWERTY). Please try, press the keys.

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[mr-GreyWolf]

I described a solution here.

[ppeccin]

Well, I'm sorry but I don't understand your solution. If the solution is modifying the BIOS, feel free to make any changes, as the BIOS you are using is not even part of WebMSX.

But if that involves "workarounds" on the emulation, I can't see how it would work, and I'm not willing to make that on the official WebMSX. You may need your own fork.

I think you are misunderstanding the purpose of the file "KeyboardKeys.js". It is NOT a keyboard matrix, its only the "virtual name" of each MSX key, to be displayed on the on-screen keyboards and configuration. It has nothing to do with the matrix and how keys are interpreted in the various modes. WebMSX only knows about the physical keyboard sending the ROW/COL values to the BIOS. That's all.

Everything related to keyboard matrix and how characters are interpreted IS IN THE BIOS, NOT ON THE KEYBOARD. What you want is a DIFFERENT/NEW BIOS. The keyboard is just a bunch of electrical interrupters linked in a ROW/COL arrangement. And so it is on the emulation.

It is impossible to do what you appear to be trying to do, without modifying the BIOS code. And about modifying the BIOS, I can't help you, sorry. I know more about the hardware, not the BIOS, specially Russian variations.

Paulo

On Fri, Aug 30, 2019 at 2:25 PM mr-GreyWolf notifications@github.com wrote:

I described a solution here https://github.com/ppeccin/WebMSX/issues/43#issuecomment-526038303.

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[mr-GreyWolf]

I know how to change BIOS, but changing BIOS for an emulator is not the right solution...

[ppeccin]

Of course it is! In fact, modifying the BIOS is the only solution... The BIOS defines how the machine interprets keys.

The emulator has nothing to do about that. It only maps HOST keys to the MSX keyboard.

The emulator has to be generic, so it can work with any BIOS, regardless of the language or country, International or Japanese or Russian.

Its wrong to make the emulator do special crazy behavior depending of what BIOS is loaded, or anything that is special only to your configuration.

Go for the BIOS modification, believe me, it really is the correct solution. And you will be able to use your modified BIOS on any other emulator or even on real machines...

To close this issue, my final opinion is:

EMULATOR -> HARDWARE KEYS ONLY. BIOS -> INTERPRETS KEYS AND DEFINE CHARACTERS.

Paulo

On Fri, Aug 30, 2019 at 2:48 PM mr-GreyWolf notifications@github.com wrote:

I know how to change BIOS, but changing BIOS for an emulator is not the right solution...

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[mr-GreyWolf]

This BIOS is standard for USSR machines MSX from Yamaha.

[mr-GreyWolf]

Copy from Clipboard (Alt+C)

Here is a test program I am copying text from this screen, here is the result:

 !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?
@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_
`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~
€‚ƒ„…†‡ˆ‰Š‹ŒŽ‘’“”•–—˜™š›œžŸ
 ¡¢£¤¥¦§¨©ª«¬­®¯°±²³´µ¶·¸¹º»¼½¾¿
ÀÁÂÃÄÅÆÇÈÉÊËÌÍÎÏÐÑÒÓÔÕÖ×ØÙÚÛÜÝÞß
àáâãäåæçèéêëìíîïðñòóôõö÷øùúûüýþ 

 
   


Ok

A problems:

1. Russian letters
2. Pseudo-graphic characters

[brawaga]

Hey, guys. I am working on making russian ROM for Philips NMS 8250. I did not publish it yet, but generally it has working russian layout on international keyboard and russian font with missing letters also added and now I am working on small unrelated enhancements and doing experiments. If interested, I just published it: https://github.com/brawaga/msxsyssrc-git-rus3.

[Wierzbowsky]

Hi Kirill,

Thanks for getting in touch. The Russian MSX2 ROMs with QWERTY layout already exist for Yamaha MSX2 YIS503III and it would be cool to have them also for Philips 8250. Please publish the results of your work in the hardware section of the msx.org forum. If you speak Russian, you can also publish your work in the MSX section of the zx-pk.ru forum.

Regards, Alexey

On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 2:09 PM Kirill Bykov notifications@github.com wrote:

Hey, guys. I am working on making russian ROM for Philips NMS 8250. I did not publish it yet, but generally it has working russian layout on international keyboard and now I am working on small unrelated enhancements and doing experiments. If interested, I can publish this.

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[mr-GreyWolf]

Hey, guys. I am working on making russian ROM for Philips NMS 8250. I did not publish it yet, but generally it has working russian layout on international keyboard and russian font with missing letters also added and now I am working on small unrelated enhancements and doing experiments. If interested, I just published it: https://github.com/brawaga/msxsyssrc-git-rus3.

Привет, Кирилл!

Будем рады помочь тебе!

[ppeccin]

Nice!

On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 2:01 PM mr-GreyWolf notifications@github.com wrote:

Hey, guys. I am working on making russian ROM for Philips NMS 8250. I did not publish it yet, but generally it has working russian layout on international keyboard and russian font with missing letters also added and now I am working on small unrelated enhancements and doing experiments. If interested, I just published it: https://github.com/brawaga/msxsyssrc-git-rus3.

Привет, Кирилл!

Будем рады помочь тебе!

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