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ppy / osu-web

the browser-facing portion of osu!
https://osu.ppy.sh
GNU Affero General Public License v3.0
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Remove kudosu limit per map #9746

Open Serizawa-Haruki opened 1 year ago

Serizawa-Haruki commented 1 year ago

This is similar to https://github.com/ppy/osu-web/issues/6069 but not the same in the sense that I suggest removing the kudosu limit per map altogether. I understand that the reason it exists is to avoid abuse, as in someone gaining a high number of kudosu without contributing much to the map's discussion. However, I think that unfortunately this type of limit doesn't really stop such behavior because someone could do it across several maps instead of a single one while staying below the limit of 40. But regardless of that, kudosu abuse is rare and not as significant nowadays because there is no actual use for them. On the other hand, it caps the rewards for modders who actually make more than 40 valid suggestions on a map which is unfair and demotivating. Therefore I think the benefits of removing this limit far outweigh the drawbacks.

TheMoMan commented 8 months ago

Feel like 40kd is already a pretty high amount to be getting from a single map. I want to say in most cases I don't need to post more than like 7 things per diff when modding.

I can maybe understand scaling the cap based on the mapset size or song length, but otherwise I feel like this would encourage poor practice when it comes to modding (e.g. posting the same issue on the timeline 30 times instead of just posting it once as a general issue).

cl8n commented 8 months ago

from OnosakiHito:

While I didn't know we had a limit, I noticed now that I've almost hit it a few times already. I would rather weight the stakes we have: Just because something doesn't happen often, doesn't mean we should ignore it. However, considering that blatant abuse is in general noticed more often than not, I think it is the wrong move to cap the amount you gain and punishing people for putting more effort into modding a set.

Speaking of sets, sometimes there are quite a few difficulties, which make them prone to have possibly more issues than 40.

Examples: https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/2114673/discussion/-/reviews 35 points (almost all applied) https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/2033647/discussion/-/reviews 27 points (most applied) https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/2097864/discussion/-/reviews 20 points (for a single diff. because it is +5min long)

I hope this helps. Cheers.

I agree with ono and OP that it's probably not doing anything to prevent abuse. but I guess the point about encouraging poor practice could be valid, assuming anyone really cares enough about kd to change their modding style based on how it's awarded...

TheMoMan commented 8 months ago

I only think if one day in the future kd gets the value it deserves then we should probably keep some basic measures around how it's awarded for now.

But yeah again I can understand if the cap was scaled to the map size.

Serizawa-Haruki commented 8 months ago

Scaling the cap based on song length and number of difficulties would be an okay solution but I feel like that's unnecessarily complicated for something like this.

The point about encouraging bad modding behaviour makes sense but I'm not sure it's an actual concern because most people probably don't even know about this limit and/or don't care about kudosu. Maybe there could be a warning if you post multiple suggestions on the timeline with same same wording, similar to how there is one if you post 2 suggestions that are close together in time.

I think if the goal is to prevent abuse, it needs to be adressed on a larger scale because there are many other aspects to consider than how much you can get in total on a single map. For example, it depends a lot on the upvote system and the people who upvote. If someone makes 10 separate NC mods on the timeline, the mapper should probably only give one of them an upvote, but since there are no actual rules you can't expect everyone to follow this. The fact that anyone can award kudosu and that you can get more than one for a single suggestion can also potentially cause "abuse" or an unfair inflation in kudosu numbers, for example if the GDer and the mapset host both upvote all the mods, or you could even ask a friend to give you an additional upvote to double the rewards. Therefore I think if anything, this needs to be reworked in general. In my opinion it would be more balanced if only the mapper (and BNs/NAT members) were able to award kudosu, but limited to 1 per suggestion. The upvote/downvote symbols could still be used by anyone, but only to show agreement/disagreement and not for kudosu.