Open MilkyIQ opened 3 years ago
peppy
commented
3 years ago I would love to see this section get a lot more coverage. I think it's important to preserve all the things that happened along the way. Let me know if I can be of help in providing any historical data or exports.
MilkyIQ
commented
3 years ago So far I've been following the convention that gameplay records (e.g., pp scores, leaderboard changes, etc.) are not to be mentioned on the general History of osu! articles. I've been doing this for just the fact that they're subjective, a major PITA to keep track of, and because they probably deserve their own article because of all the little nuances (either in or out of the wiki), much like osu!lazer.
But as I continue to keep reading articles that mention "Cookiezi did x! Rafis did y!", I'm wondering whether we should mention the 1000pp milestone. It's a milestone that is very monumental and is backed by years of history. Mentioning it would be akin to the way we mention lazer milestones (like when it first went open source, when it (eventually) "replaces" stable, and the like.
This also brings up the question as to whether or not we should have an article dedicated towards the gameplay records or something. I personally lean towards no as those are better left for YouTube historians like Willy and BruhmasterL. But the breaking of the "1000pp barrier" is still something that could be momentous enough for a mention.
Curious what everyone else thinks about this 🤔
sr229
commented
3 years ago So far I've been following the convention that gameplay records (e.g., pp scores, leaderboard changes, etc.) are not to be mentioned on the general History of osu! articles. I've been doing this for just the fact that they're subjective, a major PITA to keep track of, and because they probably deserve their own article because of all the little nuances (either in or out of the wiki), much like osu!lazer.
But as I continue to keep reading articles that mention "Cookiezi did x! Rafis did y!", I'm wondering whether we should mention the 1000pp milestone. It's a milestone that is very monumental and is backed by years of history. Mentioning it would be akin to the way we mention lazer milestones (like when it first went open source, when it (eventually) "replaces" stable, and the like.
This also brings up the question as to whether or not we should have an article dedicated towards the gameplay records or something. I personally lean towards no as those are better left for YouTube historians like Willy and BruhmasterL. But the breaking of the "1000pp barrier" is still something that could be momentous enough for a mention.
Curious what everyone else thinks about this 🤔
Most community milestones should be mentioned yes, since they're pretty important events. Breaking pp barriers should be one of them.
Bazzadwarf
commented
3 years ago I pretty much agree that events of significance should be documented if only to make sure that it is easy to find the correct up-to-date information for other curious players.
It's too easy to find information that's either outdated or wrong and it's an area that I think the wiki suits well.
MilkyIQ
commented
3 years ago After some further thought, I think I am in favour of mentioning substantial gameplay records in the HOO (History of osu!) articles; however, I would still like more viewpoints on this if possible, which is why I won't be taking any real action on that front for the time being. Despite that, though, there's still some questions that would remain if we are to mention gameplay records. Like...
Personally, I'm actually now leaning towards a dedicated article regarding "highest pp score record", or even just chronicling the history of famous plays, because there's just so much history that cannot be conveyed in what is effectively a glorified timeline. However, my only concern would be formality and bias, as the difficulty and significance of a map is subjective and could also fall victim to prejudice from the writer (e.g., promoting one player's scores over another, downplaying the significance of other scores, etc.)
So far, though, the HOO articles are focused on general osu! history: primarily "firsts" in the community, updates to the base game, as well as general new things that pop up that have historical significance.
PS: research for 2016 is done, but I'm planning on stockpiling research notes for 2016-2018 before writing articles for each just so I don't tear my eyes out if new information needs to be added
peppy
commented
3 years ago I think scores and general player achievements/history may be better suited to be a separate set of pages. There's a lot more than just scores if you want to start covering the player side of things (completionist achievements etc.)
I would see a "history of osu!" being about the game as a whole, not about individuals (unless those individuals are involved in shaping the path of the game. this isn't the case for scores).
Bazzadwarf
commented
3 years ago I think one of the main issues when it comes to documenting scores is the subjectivity of them. Scores that have an easy quantifiability to them should probably go into a relevant group article. Still, a score like chocomint's HDDT FC on Chaoz Japan is pretty nuts to me, but I'm not sure how many players would describe it as important in the grand history of osu!
One idea could be for scores relevant to a specific player to go in a history of "osu! player" article, which @jxu proposed a while back in https://github.com/ppy/osu-wiki/issues/4554. However, that proposal hasn't currently come to anything at the moment.
Similarly, we could do beatmap history wiki pages, which then opens to the opportunity to talk about more than just the scores set on it. Still, I would be worried about how hard it would be for them to be written into something more factual than opinion while still being enjoyable to read.
jxu
commented
3 years ago yeah the chaoz japan score is nutty and rustbell's score is historical too
I actually made an experimental wiki but I haven't put anything on it yet since I've been busy https://osu.wiki If the official wiki disallows subjective evaluations of players, I think there is some room for it in a separate community wiki
jxu
commented
3 years ago not about individuals (unless those individuals are involved in shaping the path of the game. this isn't the case for scores).
The game by its nature is competitive; since the core mechanics of gameplay have changed little, most of what has changed is the competition and mapping meta. So I think influential players as well as mappers should get their own pages.
Bazzadwarf
commented
3 years ago Dropping this here for better visibility, so it's not stuck in the 2017 PR: https://gist.github.com/Bazzadwarf/6457501859eadd7a991e08a9bd23510a
These seem like a decent idea, so I will try to curate some more if I get the time.
cl8n
commented
2 years ago dropping this link here so it doesn't get lost: https://github.com/ppy/osu-wiki/pull/6003 PR closed due to inactivity but it has some good info for 2017, along with the comment above.
The-Last-Cookie
commented
1 year ago I started a workspace for collecting sources for history articles in my osu-wiki-notes repository, to make it easier to convert the notes to actual history articles later on. Bullet point lists for 2023 and 2021, as well as sources for the event on r/place in 2022, are already there.
If you want to contribute by providing sources or write part of an article, write me a message or open a PR at the aformentioned repository.
(I can move the list from Bazzadwarf there too if wanted.)
The-Last-Cookie
commented
1 day ago Now that #12027 is merged, I wanted to add the list of things I had still planned for the article to this issue for later consumption.
There's way too many holes in the "History of osu!" pages as well as basically no information pre-2011 and post-2018. Things like the history of the website design, dev blogs or updates during beta releases, as well as major milestones in player achievements (e.g., breaking the 1000pp barrier) throughout the years are pretty much nowhere to be found there. There's also been no updates to the history of the wiki post-2018. On top of this, the articles are very unorganized and need heavy cleanup in order to be serviceable.
Thus, I propose that the History of osu! articles undergo the following changes:
Note: if you'd like to assign yourself to a specific task or something of the like, feel free to leave a comment; I'll be updating this issue with any progress or changes made as things progress