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XMPP E2EE tracking #1838

Open Mikaela opened 4 years ago

Mikaela commented 4 years ago

XMPP is under thread of delisting in https://github.com/privacytoolsIO/privacytools.io/pull/1836 as there is currently only one client known that has OMEMO enabled by default, Conversations.

I wish to relist it as soon as it comforms the criteria and I hope this issue can be used for tracking issues related to that.

From XMPP Compliance Suites 2020 / Future development there are a few interesting specifications linked:

dngray commented 4 years ago

I've subscribed to this issue, because I am curious to see how it develops.

I think we that we can continue with https://github.com/privacytoolsIO/privacytools.io/pull/1836.

jonaharagon commented 4 years ago

We're going to relist "Matrix" as "Riot" in #1836 because we realized we wanted to avoid recommending protocols (which is mostly helpful for administrators) and focus on recommending clients (which is more helpful for end-users, our target).

So we can rethink criteria a bit, and maybe that deserves its own issue, but what it boils down to is:

  1. The client needs to be secure and privacy-respecting (which I think Conversations is)
    • I think we should also agree now whether we only want OMEMO (this is my current assumption) or if OTR is acceptable.
  2. Users need to be able to communicate across platforms to avoid vendor lock-in.

The second point being where I think "XMPP" is currently failing, because Conversations is Android-only... I'm not against listing XMPP clients per-operating-system if we need to, but I'm not aware of any other decent clients, so what we're waiting for is...

A web-client would also be neat but is perhaps wishful thinking. But I think when decent clients materialize for all of the above platforms we can probably list that set of clients as our general "XMPP" recommendation for RTC.

Mikaela commented 4 years ago

https://conversejs.org/

nitrohorse commented 4 years ago

For iOS clients, I believe Monal has the most active development with Siskin coming in 2nd and now ChatSecure in 3rd.

Having used ChatSecure and Monal I feel incredibly uncomfortable with recommending either. Unless they have drastically changed in the past 6 months.

No, I don't think either has drastically changed in terms of UX or UI.

woj-tek commented 4 years ago

@JonahAragon there is SiskinIM for iOS (https://github.com/tigase/siskin-im/) and BeagleIM for macOS (https://github.com/tigase/beagle-im/)

mdosch commented 3 years ago

As others already mentioned: Siskin is the client I recommend to iOS people. Also if you have objections to Dino you could recommend Gajim for Linux and Windows (I'm not sure about the state on Macs).

GintokiHub commented 3 years ago

I find gajim quite easy to use actually. It might seem a -littele-bit- imposing at first but it's really quite straightforward IMO. What are others opinion on the client for windows?

mdosch commented 3 years ago

Right now Gajim is imo the best client on windows. Maybe Dino will be an option once they provide a windows build. So far there are only community builds for windows.

On 27.10.2020 09:22, GintokiHub wrote:

I find gajim quite easy to use actually. It might seem a -littele-bit- imposing at first but it's really quite straightforward IMO. What are others opinion on the client for windows?

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arendtio commented 3 years ago

Just contributing my experience:

All these clients support OMEMO afaik. I don't think that having OMEMO enabled by default should be relevant for listing XMPP clients. On the other hand, I would not recommend clients that only support OTR (used a few years before OMEMO became a thing and still remember those slow transfer speeds).

Haven't tried anything on MacOS yet, but I heard that Monal is a bad but still the best option.

albjeremias commented 3 years ago

why isn't conversations on privacytools.io ?!

mdosch commented 3 years ago

See above, because conversations is android only whereas riot is everywhere.

Mikaela commented 3 years ago

I am not sure Element being on iOS is a good argument and I also wouldn't seek for privacy on Matrix in it's current state and if it was up to me, I would add a lot of warnings or simply delist it again. Then again putting in personal effort to do that would be pointless until the team is released from renaming/redomaining etc.

EDIT: