Organic support generation produces floating objects in the air

[Rapterron]

Description of the bug

Hello Prusa Dev Team.

I noticed a misbehavior during organic support generation:

First of all the default support generation is to weak and does not catch all support required parts of the model(s) or will simply break during the print (as the parts become more and more heavier) but more important parts are generated floating mid air and would cause a failed print.

Please find below a few screenshots:

This seems to happen more often when I use paint on supports / support enforcers to make the organic support more dense.

I hope this Feedback is beneficial for you and thank you for your effort creating and maintaining the best Slicer on the market.

• Cheers Christian

`PrusaSlicer Version: 2.6.0-alpha3+win64 Build: PrusaSlicer-2.6.0-alpha3+win64-202302031521

Operating System: Windows System Architecture: 64 bit Windows Version: Windows 11 (build 22621), 64-bit edition Total RAM size [MB]: 34,104MB OpenGL installation GL version: 4.6.0 Profile: Core Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation Renderer: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU/PCIe/SSE2 GLSL version: 4.60.0 Textures compression: Enabled

Installed extensions:

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`

Project file & How to reproduce

Note: This is a premium licensed model I want to print for a customer / friend. I cut it down to avoid any legal issues but the issue is pretty well reproducible

Slicer_issue_cut_version_KassadinPart2.zip

Checklist of files included above

• [X] Project file
• [X] Screenshot

Version of PrusaSlicer

2.6.0 alpha3

Operating system

Windows 11

Printer model

MK3s + MMU2s, MINI

[DKotekCZ]

I am having same diaspointnent, I've tried to print Spartan model, supports really looked good, but after some hours prints supports breaked and hole print was disapointed. Is there some settings how to make organics support morr useable, or will it be fixed till the final release. I am having Alpha2

[cyberknet]

I am able to reproduce the issue in a model that I designed myself, no issues posting it here. I am also using paint-on supports, but auto-generated by PrusaSlicer. Paint On Supports:

Air Print Supports:

Tic-Tac-Toe - Ready To Print.zip

[darrenmckie]

I am also having this issue.

[Rapterron]

Hello,

I tested again with the latest alpha 4 but the Issue is still present:

I used the former attached project file and sliced it right ahead. Here are some examples of floating support which will lead to a failed print.

[jrgiacone]

I'm still having the same issue in alpha 5, is there any update on this?

[Rapterron]

Hello,

I can confirm, in alpha 5 the issue is still present. However I can see a relation to the paint on support feature.

Objects slices without painted support seems to be (mostly) supported correctly, too weak but at least no or way less islands.

Below my latest test: Sliced with paint on supports:

Sliced without paint on support: The island on the left side (purple marker) was resolved but there is still a half connected island on the left side (red)

Hope that helps. Cheers Christian.

[seancmonahan]

I can replicate the issue with just a slanted slab. It seems it is occurs when many trunks overlap each other and the slicer merges them. (This is still happening with 2.6.0-alpha6.)

I've attached both a demonstration of the issue simple-case.zip, which contains a single, slanted slab, and an example of what I think is happening under the hood intersecting-cones-demo.zip.

intersecting-cones-demo.3mf simulates what I think the organic support generation does when building trunks. The case which works has 5 cones overlapping in a cross. The case which breaks has 9 cones overlapping in a 3-by-3 grid. I haven't had a chance to dive into the code yet, but I'd be interested in looking.

[zgita]

This is a ring with square cross-section lifted by a hub with spokes. The ring floats above the supports in the top of the image. 2.6.0-alpha5

[Madcamper]

I too have noticed a similar issue. Mine is along with organic support coming from the build plate up onto the model. As it prints through the hole, it then expands but is printing in the air, rather than attaching to the model.

Maybe need an option to choose for support on the model rather than default to build plate or ability to manually set the starting point for supports? Hope this makes sense. Please send me a message if it doesn't.

Overview of how supports are intended:

Overview of floating Support:

Close up of floating support side view:

Close up of floating support top down:

View from under the build plate where support is starting:

[Eddyg87]

Just to add I am also seeing this in Alpha 6.

If you slice the attached 3mf file you will observe it on the support being generated for the ears.

Mammoth.zip

[bobbyh41]

I can confirm that this is still a problem in 2.6 beta 1

[JesusFreke]

I ran into this bug on 2.6 beta 3. I can provide the sliced model with settings, if requested.

[cnlson]

@bubnikv @lukasmatena @enricoturri1966

Are you aware of this issue? Is someone working on it?

[lukasmatena]

@cnlson We are aware of the issue.

[cnlson]

Thank you for confirming

On Tue, Jun 6, 2023, 2:20 AM Lukáš Matěna - @. @.> wrote:

@cnlson https://github.com/cnlson We are aware of the issue.

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/prusa3d/PrusaSlicer/issues/9601#issuecomment-1578062540, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AALAB2457DMS6LWMAVZEM2TXJ3K4DANCNFSM6AAAAAAURP3DHQ . You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID: @.***>

[kubispe1]

as Lukas mentioned, we have it already on our dev list: SPE-1556

[sturze]

noticed the same issue on my print. printed fine on alpha 6, on recent versions it starts doing this. hope this helps in any way

Project.3mf.zip

[jrgiacone]

I saw the stable 2.6 got released @kubispe1 has this been resolved?

[Madcamper]

Doesn't appear to have been fixed, at least in my instance. This is a bird feeder base with a few drain holes in the bottom. The supports are for the bridging of the opening where bird seed falls through and out into the tray. See the last screenshot for reference. I would imagine the first support layer after the top layer of the hole would be printed onto the top layer itself and then built up from there. Or print the supports only directly on top of the top layer of the model.

[AzimuthHeavyIndustry]

@jrgiacone Just made the jump from SuperSlicer to PS to get in on those sweet organic supports, and sadly I can confirm that even in the stable release of 2.6 this is still a problem.

Trying to support a large, mostly flat, slab at an extreme angle seems to evoke the behavior. It seems like its having trouble with mashing together the bases of multiple small branches. Ends up leaving large void spaces and just starting to print branch parts in mid air over them.

[kubispe1]

At the end of version 2.6.0, we made improvements to Organic Supports in order to reduce the occurrence of this issue, but it still appears as isolated islands in the air. It is proving to be more difficult to fix than we originally anticipated. We apologize for the inconvenience.

[bonjorno7]

I ran into this issue as well, but it ended up printing fine somehow. Otherwise great supports though, keep up the good work 👍

[jps4you]

bug continues to exist on 2.7.1. sigh....

[shwaydogg]

Also stumbled upon this issue while using organic supports.

[bootron]

Also experiencing this issue in 2.7.1.

[Lyude]

I hope this issue can be fixed soon! I keep running into model after model that would print perfectly fine with organic support, but fails because it generates mid-air islands :(

[westranm]

Yes, PLEASE get this one fixed. Organic supports are amazing except for this.

[AzimuthHeavyIndustry]

Issue has been open for a year already and they haven't even bothered marking it as a bug yet. Somehow I don't think they intend to fix it. Just move over to Orcaslicer if you want functional organic supports. I gave up on Prusa getting this fixed months ago.

[neclimdul]

Don't need to rude, Prusa developers work pretty hard on this and their work flows back and forth with OrcaSlicer. Its just a hard problem and they've got a lot of hard problems to solve so they have to make choices.

Unsurprisingly though, I checked and the sample project creates the similar floating supports in OrcaSlicer. So while you might have had better luck, the bug still exists in shared algorithm that needs to be fixed.

Orca: Prusa:

[EllaFoxo]

This bug feels like it's a mathematical conflict between the branch diameter, and the branch angle. One parameter wants to widen the base, whilst the other wants to make it thinner as it gets towards the tips. There isn't a lot of wiggle room either side of the window where the sliced model has good support, yet a thick base. I've been able to workaround that to the best of my ability with these settings. With the simple case file posted above, I found that reducing the branch density further to 5% helped get it to generate correctly. Hope it helps someone stumbling into this thread

[Savvy0351]

I have found the issue to be both auto generated and painted on organic supports. I can however correct the issue with painted on supports. I use the block supports to space out where the support touch the face and it unclutters the trunks.

The issue arises with large areas needing support close to the build plate. The surface to support is too far away for branches to be created so individual trunks are created instead. The organic generation wants to support the whole thing but it is causing trunks to intersect in the center of the perimeter created by the outside of the glob of trunks. Like @seancmonahan pointed out the floating islands predominantly appear at the intersection of 4 cones in a rough square. when 3 cones intersect they can build off each other instead of creating an island.

using a x=50mm,y=50mm,z=10mm box that is an added part to a default cube of 22.5mm(so I can adjust height from the build plate)

• when box is parallel to build plate the distances from build plate that caused the issue are between 3mm and 9mm
• when box is at a 15 degree angle ~3mm to ~10mm
• when box is at a 45 degree angle ~2mm to ~12mm

I did not test any other sizes of faces or non flat faces. although I have seen it replicated on many parts with non flat and varying sized faces.

The box at 15 degrees starting at 3mm from build plate and ending at ~16mm from build plate really show the transition

when the box is only 10mm wide you can see the difference in generation logic well. between 3mm and 10mm there are 2-3 wide trunks just to support the part where after 10mm it is only using 1 trunk.

instead of fixing the overlap issue it may be easier to change the trunk base diameter for branches that will contact the part between of 2-12mm

PrusaSlicer Version: 2.7.4+win64 Build: PrusaSlicer-2.7.4+win64-202404050928

Operating System: Windows System Architecture: 64 bit Windows Version: Windows 11 (build 22631), 64-bit edition Total RAM size [MB]: 16,981MB OpenGL installation GL version: 4.6.0 (4.6.0 NVIDIA 526.98) Profile: Core Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation Renderer: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1660 Ti with Max-Q Design/PCIe/SSE2 GLSL version: 4.60.0 Textures compression: Enabled