Progress / Roadmap

[krebbi]

I'm just curious about the current state and the maintenance of this project as the oldest issue is from 3rd of july 2013 with actually 85 open issues and 20 open pull requests - where the oldest ist from 23rd july 2013. is this project still relevant or did you guys give up against bootstrap?

[vargalas]

I'm also curious. This project seems to be a really good alternative. Although BS has a huge community already, this is a big advantage. But I really like your solution. Lightweight, powerful and elegant.

[lkraav]

There will be new maintenership news in April and things will start moving again.

[vargalas]

:) Cool! Thanks.

[thurt]

@lkraav :+1:

[johanchouquet]

Cool. Good job by the way.

[krebbi]

good to hear! because I think this is the best framework for IoT-Devices!

[SinanGabel]

👍

On 9 March 2016 at 17:04, krebbi notifications@github.com wrote:

great to hear! because I think this is the best framework for IoT-Devices!

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/yahoo/pure/issues/557#issuecomment-194364672.

[jiaxunjiaxun]

Good job~~

[christianmenz]

Keep up the great work, thank you.

[Goury]

I are glad to know the good news. I decided to integrate pure css into my CMS. using this tool feels just right.

[vamsi]

Great things shouldn't stop. I am very happy to know this news. Keep going :+1:

[lkraav]

Thanks. All of the support means a lot.

[ghost]

:+1:

[geekosupremo]

The project lives! Yes!! I find this to be one of the best/easiest to wrap into the projects I touch that have pre-existing, and "untouchable", css.

Can't wait to see where it goes next!

[pixeline]

I love purecss, because it is fat free. Thanks a lot for keeping it alive!

[KrisSiegel]

I was looking at possibly using pure for my next app and wondering this very thing. Still a little nervous considering the last release was over a year ago but I'm glad good news is coming.

[lkraav]

I was looking at possibly using pure for my next app and wondering this very thing. Still a little nervous considering the last release was over a year ago but I'm glad good news is coming.

What I could do is push a small experimental update to npm so you could take advantage of Firefox flexbox support, autoprefixer, etc.

[isaiahaguilera]

Any update on the new maintenership?

[redonkulus]

@iaguilera14 Sorry guys thats on me to sync up with @lkraav to brain dump release process and some other stuff. Trying to find time to sync up on that. @lkraav has access to this repo to merge/close PR's but just not to release yet. Hopefully a better update soon.

[isaiahaguilera]

Thanks for the update @redonkulus

[whats1thingnow]

looking forward to it!

[jeffmcneill]

Would love to hear more!

[ididimarco]

any news?

[michel-tournier]

Any news on this @redonkulus @lkraav ... perhaps a concrete and reliable road map, so people know what to expect from Pure in the near future.

[lkraav]

@michel-tournier for me, several big life events have held this transition up (big projects completions, new baby, moving to a bigger place etc). At the same time, poking @redonkulus for updates is the most that the current state of infrastructures would have allowed me to do, regardless of my availability. I am not sure if the infrastructure transition planning meeting has been held at yahoo yet. @redonkulus can you provide any insight into the current state of things on your end?

[michel-tournier]

@lkraav that explains a lot, thanks. And congratulations on those big life events!

[redonkulus]

@lkraav We are currently close to launching a couple of big projects as well at Yahoo. Once those are done (a couple of weeks if the dates hold) I will be able to focus on Pure and work on the transition plan. So hopefully in June, we can sync up and do a proper hand off. My apologies to the community for taking so much time on this. We appreciate your support and patience.

[richardrobinsonx]

I have to say that I just started using Pure CSS and I love it!! It's a breath of fresh air, very easy to use, and less intrusive than Bootstrap.

[siogorman]

Really looking forward to see the roadmap for Pure even though I think it's a polished product.

[n0nag0n]

Waits patiently

[absalomedia]

Any movement @lkraav ?

[KrisSiegel]

Might be time to give up on this framework. Considering almost nothing has happened to it in over a year, tons of issues and PRs sit with zero comments, pulls or rejections with promises since March (already a year with essentially no activity at that point) about having a new ownership. Even parts of the website have remained broken for months. If someone else maintains this project, eventually, there is just a ton of backlog to deal with and even then it's still within Yahoo; I'm not convinced it'll stay maintained (especially once it's sold who knows what the new priorities will be).

Your milage may vary. I love the idea of PureCSS but at this point I've had to pass on it twice due to outstanding issues that affect my usage of it and I see little point in attempting to make it work in any future projects.

[redonkulus]

@KrisSiegel which PR's or issues are preventing you from using the framework? This would help prioritize the work. I asked this back in March and nobody responded. I get that it hasn't released a version in a year, but that doesn't mean its not usable. Unfortunately, @lkraav and myself have been busy and this project has been a lower priority (for me) versus the other projects at work.

As for access, @lkraav has the ability to close issues, merge PR's etc, the biggest gap is releasing. The process right now relies on technology that is internal to Yahoo and thus requires some thought on how to transition this outwards. Mainly just releasing to CDN, right now we have it hosted on our own but it makes more sense to use a public one so that push access is easier to maintain. The site itself is also hosted on Yahoo's internal servers and would be best to move to something like Heroku or even GitHub Pages (if that makes sense).

Its these things that require more time and thought. Trying to be as transparent as possible.

[lkraav]

I'm emerging from my own personal busy season, but summer fricking sucks - everybody cashing vacations out which delays everything. I think realistic would be to expect something resembling more significant movement as early in September as possible.

@redonkulus does need sort out the infra strategy internally though, regardless of my own opportunity to move things along. I'm good to talk details any time you have an hour or whatnot to spare, ping me on gitter.

[pimbrouwers]

@KrisSiegel reading this upsets me a little bit. I've been using pure since it's official release on dozens of production sites with almost no issues whatsoever. I've of course written some of my own extensions (push/pull utility, visibility classes based on breakpoints, flexbox grid) to pickup where pure left off. But I have loved every second of using it. In fact, I've converted literally every single team I've worked with to PureCSS (from TWBS or Foundation) and none have looked back.

I'd be curious to know what's been creating problems for you? Or whether perhaps you're viewing the framework with the wrong set of lenses? Remember, pure is meant to act as a base, not as an "all-in-one" solution.

When using it, I end up writing more CUSTOM styles than I did when I was using TWBS or Foundation. But my sites are leaner and style payloads infinitely smaller.

[KrisSiegel]

Hey @redonkulus

which PR's or issues are preventing you from using the framework? This would help prioritize the work. I asked this back in March and nobody responded.

If I remember correctly it was IE10 and 11 issues (I think it was related to #504 as I remember having some grid issues in IE but it's been a while since I investigated Pure). I also remember running into some issues with Animate.css + Pure but didn't bother filing an issue as I assumed the project was abandoned and I honestly don't remember what they were but if I find some time I'll look into it again so I can file an issue (if it's even a problem anymore; Animate.css may have fixed some of these issues). I didn't notice your asking in March or I would have mentioned it :)

I get that it hasn't released a version in a year, but that doesn't mean its not usable.

To a degree yes that is correct but it's difficult to commit to Pure as that decision will drive not just your CSS but your specific styling overrides along with the HTML markup. It's not a small commitment especially if it's going to be a large project so I try to avoid any projects that appear abandoned when I make such decisions especially if it's for a client. I don't want someone inheriting my project only to find it uses something that may have bugs and no support.

Mainly just releasing to CDN, right now we have it hosted on our own but it makes more sense to use a public one so that push access is easier to maintain.

Big fan of cdnjs. They host my msngr.js library and they can go directly off of GitHub releases.

Hey @pimbrouwers

reading this upsets me a little bit. I've been using pure since it's official release on dozens of production sites with almost no issues whatsoever.[...]But I have loved every second of using it.

It's nothing personal against anyone or Pure. You're using it and it works great for you and you've extended it where you need to. That's exactly what libraries / frameworks are supposed to do: make you more productive and maybe even enjoy doing whatever you're doing a little more as an added bonus. Plus Pure is freaking 4kb minified; that's really good.

My original point was just factual and now we have the added bonus of the Yahoo sale which adds even more uncertainties in my mind. But if it's working for you I don't see any reason to stop using it or to be upset I'm just not expecting much of future development based on the current trends (feel free to prove this wrong though; like I said I love the ideas here).

I'd be curious to know what's been creating problems for you? Or whether perhaps you're viewing the framework with the wrong set of lenses? Remember, pure is meant to act as a base, not as an "all-in-one" solution.

All CSS based frameworks are a base. I wouldn't consider any of them "all-in-one" to be honest (even bootstrap; you still need to add your own layer on top of it in my opinion). But that's precisely what I was looking for when I stumbled across Pure: a tiny CSS framework that gets the stupid stuff right so I can concentrate on the harder stuff. I mentioned some of the issues at the top of the comment.

There are quite a few competitors in this space so I'll certainly be keeping an eye out to see how things play out. Right now I'm trying to test out multiple ones but it's hard to beat Pure's 4kb size (bootstrap is about 24kb IIRC, MDL is like 20kb and there are a lot others in the 15kb to 30kb range but almost none that are less than 10kb from what I've seen).

[dustalov]

According to the recent information regarding the Yahoo! acquisition by Verizon (wow!), I started being worried about the future of PureCSS. Like many people here, I really, really like this framework and use it in a lot of small websites. Could you please outline the plans for PureCSS?

[redonkulus]

@dustalov plans remain the same. Verizon/AOL stuff doesn't matter. This project will be community driven and maintained. Still working with @lkraav on the hand off. Starting to make some progress now. Thank you for your patience.

[chaoaretasty]

How are things progressing on this?

To be honest I'm really starting to give up hope. I really like Pure but the constant promises of updates is getting ridiculous. It's been a year and a half since 0.6.0 and there are still PRs with fixes like vendor prefix issues since not long after. I get that there may not be much need for additions but for a project that claims not to be dead it's not unreasonable to have expected a maintenance release or two since then.

We had @lkraav saying "I think realistic would be to expect something resembling more significant movement as early in September as possible." and it's now the end of September with no movement.

Please just be honest with us about what is happening or that the project is no longer going to be maintained one way or the other.

[Goury]

@chaoaretasty I are successfully gave up month ago. PureCSS is dead. T_T

[redonkulus]

@chaoaretasty I understand your frustration. But understand that this project is not actively funded right now by Yahoo. I'm actually just trying to hand this off so that it does not "die". I've never actually worked in the code base or had anything to do with it, but I felt like it would good if the community could take it over, so I want to facilitate that if I can.

@lkraav was nice enough to offer his time to help shepherd this along, but he is busy as well with work and life. If other members of the community want to step up and offer to help, we can consider that as well.

[Scorpiion]

Hi @redonkulus, thanks for putting in your time to help maintain this project. We use Pure for both our homepage and cloud interface at Sourcevoid.

Is there anything in particular that you want us from the community to help out with? Hard to promise anything without knowing what's needed but I would be happy to hear how we can help.

[redonkulus]

Basically become a maintainer of the project. That includes Merging/Closing PR's, Pushing out new releases or Pure, updating the website, answering issues, optimizing/maintaining code, building new features (if they make sense and do not bloat the project). General OSS maintenance of the project.

[Scorpiion]

I see, that is of course quite a bit of work indeed.

I must say personally I'm not that great with CSS, not an expert at least, I'm more of a software engineer. I don't think I have the level of CSS knowledge to handle merging/closing of PR's. As you mention about bloat, I also think it's important that if the project should be kept "alive" that it is done correctly.

Where I potentially could see us helping out, if there is need, is on the infrastructure side. While I'm sure the hosting costs are not an issue for Yahoo to continue I can imagine that the actual authentication to push content to Yahoo corporate servers might be complicated maybe? I can see that the blog is on Tumbler, also Yahoo but there it's just transferring the login so it should be simple enough. Then there is the CDN, I guess that's the same thing, giving access to a third party might be complicated.

Do you have any numbers on how much traffic there is on the homepage and maybe bandwidth usage on the CDN? If it would help, and not cost us too much in bandwidth, we could maybe step in and resolve the potential authentication issues in regards to hosting infrastructure. Basically host it on our platform and help push updates and also give access to any number of people who have commit rights to the repo or similar.

Let me know if this would be helpful or not, otherwise I hope things sort themselves out. If anyone would like to contact me more privately my email is "Robert" at the domain in the link of my last post.

[redonkulus]

Ideally we would move the site off of Yahoo's internal servers and on to heroku or maybe even github pages (I forget if the site is truly static).

For CDN, we could easily use cdnjs or even unpkg to host the files and remove the reliance on Yahoo's internal CDN. That would be my preferred path forward.

I've talked to @lkraav about this and created a Release doc so he can see the current steps it takes to release Pure (without the Yahoo specific stuff). I don't think it needs much changes besides the CDN one mentioned above, but automation to make some of the steps easier would be nice.

[Scorpiion]

Check, looks very much like a nodejs site based on the repo. Not a big Heroku fan for various reasons, good luck with everything then.

[redonkulus]

Thanks for reaching out. We may need you later on if you are up for it.

[Scorpiion]

Okay no problem, you have my email and Github user so just ping me if you want to talk later on.

[michel-tournier]

Any update on the future of pure @lkraav @redonkulus ? If not, you guys better pull the plug on this project, because this is getting ridiculous. Almost 2 years have passed without any reliable information, timeline or structural updates.

[redonkulus]

@michel-tournier thanks for the reminder.

The latest update is that I've started some of the prerequisite tasks to make the ownership transition easier. That includes removing the reliance of Yahoo!'s internal CDN and leveraging unpkg as the default (https://github.com/yahoo/pure-site/pull/336). The other alternative CDNs are still listed on the site.

I also went through all the open tickets and commented or closed ~30 of them. Same for PRs, closing or merging them as appropriate.

For the pure site, I've spent some time fixing the internal pipeline so we can get updates out on to the site again. The pipeline was in a bad state due to some dependency issues. I will pushing out a release next week to get updates out onto production.

The next steps would be to sync up with @lkraav. Also, I could look into doing a patch release if there are bug fixes that need to go out.