pylorak / TinyWall

TinyWall is a free, non-intrusive, secure-by-default firewall for Windows.
GNU General Public License v3.0
294 stars 47 forks source link

Removing pop ups is actually a lack not a feature. #3

Closed Shituation closed 1 year ago

Shituation commented 1 year ago

The app boasts about not showing pop ups for blocked apps... I wonder how can you really have control over a firewall that doesn't let you know what apps are doing until you manually check it.

Its not a feature, its a lack.

eurobank commented 1 year ago

You watch the Connections blocked and unblock what you need to allow.

Shituation commented 1 year ago

I expect a firewall to send me a pop up asking me to to allow or reject a connection not having to check what it is doing. This is not a feature.

pylorak commented 1 year ago

This has been extensively explained on the website. For your reference:

Most firewalls are based on the same interaction principles. Basically, whenever an application is trying to access the internet, display a popup asking the user what to do. This is not only annoying for the user, but is also less than secure. On an average computer, a lot of applications are trying to access the internet. Displaying a popup for each app makes it very probable that unneeded applications will gain access to the network, as it increases the likelyhood of the user granting unnecessary rights to many applications. This phenomenon could be characterized as "security fatigue", and at its extreme, the user does not verify any more what he gives internet access, but just blindly allows programs that ask for it.

TinyWall takes a different approach. It does not display popups that urge users to whitelist apps. In fact, it will not notify you of any blocked action at all in real-time. Instead of showing popups, TinyWall makes it easy to whitelist or unblock applications by different means. For example, you can just initiate whitelisting by a hotkey, then click on a window that you want to allow. Or, you can select an application from the list of running processes. Of course, the traditional way of selecting an executable also works. This approach avoids popups, but still keeps the firewall very easy to use. Most importantly, with the no-popup approach, the user will only notice that a program has been denied internet access when he can't use it any more. Consequently, users will only unblock applications that they actually need and none more, which is optimal from a security standpoint.

A couple of additional notes:

EDIT: Also, to reply directly to your expectations:

I expect a firewall to send me a pop up asking me to to allow or reject a connection not having to check what it is doing.

And why do you want to do that? As nothing is allowed by default except for what you've whitelisted personally, you know nothing has network access that you don't want to. So you don't need popups for this. If you're worried about installed malware and that's why you're checking the blocked connections, that means you're worried about your antivirus not detecting it. This is a job for your antivirus, not for your firewall.

Shituation commented 1 year ago

Oh great developer, you are so right, the user is always stupid, you the developers are wise and only protect the users from their own stupidity because you are exceptional, naturally.

We are so stupid, ohh great master, that we could block an app that we didn't want or allow it, because we don't know how to distinguish two buttons causing irreparable damage because we, the stupid users trying to find 3rd party free firewalls don't know what to do if we click the wrong pixels, thank you for thinking so well of us even when we are not at your height.

Forgive my impertinence by thinking we, the not worthy of your wisdom, the dumb users, can have a feature basic on most firewalls that destroys so many lives around the world every hour.

You made me reconsider my dumb idea of getting a free, open firewall because of my stupidity, I could not handle such complex stuff. I will have to punish myself over such daring, I think I will have to install a cracked version (evil evil evil) of glasswire elite that attracted me to its sinful features.

I will have to rely on my openwrt router firewall and glasswire on my PC to punish myself and get real time pop ups with two choices that I will have to triple check because of its potential harm and permanent damage.

Thank you, thank you for protecting us, always thinking for us, acting for us and forcing us to stay safe from ourselves.

Pray for me please. 🙏

pylorak commented 1 year ago

There's no need to act so cynical just because I believe the way you want to use a firewall doesn't align with TinyWall's principles. You claim you know better because you're the user? You're forgetting that I am also a firewall user. TinyWall came to life because I want to use a software like this. Some users (like me) like how TinyWall works, some others (like you) don't. Neither of us are alone. It is normal to have multiple software for a single task, all with different working principles and UIs, and all cater for different users. If you don't believe TinyWall is suited for you, that's alright, I don't think you're stupid as you've put it, we just have different expectations.

ilgrank commented 1 year ago

@Shituation :Tinywall was made with the idea to have a default action plan, and don't bother the user. That's perfect for my needs, and the needs of thousands other happy users. Maybe it's simply not the right firewall for you, and as there are dozens of free alternatives around, just choose one that fits best your needs, it as easy as that.

Update: or, you could also fork this project and add a simple popup. 😄