decorator-factory
commented
3 years ago Do you think it is the humanity of us sending it over the bot? If so, your argument is ridiculous.
I don't see how it's ridiculous. People abused !ask mostly because it's very quick and easy to invoke the message.
Because it was a bot command, newcomers also used it after someone else had used it, thinking that it is a tool for asking questions. !gethelp would have the same issue, unless you rename it to something more clear, like !how-to-get-help (at which point you could just write a proper sentence).
Yet another issue is that people naturally ignore stuff posted by the bot. Most people new to the server ignore the contents of this embed past "Available help channel".
If a person is lost, you can just say something along the lines of: "Hey, check out #how-to-get-help and claim a help channel." or "You can look at the guide to our channels here: https://pythondiscord.com/pages/guides/pydis-guides/help-channel-guide/"
Once most people know the contents of the embed it is unlikely that it will be used incorrectly at all,
We get about 500 new members every day.
The tag tells the reader about specialized channels and introduces them to a large part of the server, after reading this and reading #how-to-get-help as suggested they will be a fully-fledged community member never needing to ask questions again. It introduces them to the general etiquette of asking questions and acts of sort of a hub. Whilst it is very possible for them to simply read how-to-get-help, I think this is just better.
Never needing to ask questions again? That would be a very long embed. We already have a guide for the basic server structure: https://pythondiscord.com/pages/guides/pydis-guides/help-channel-guide/ Why not use it?
minalike
Whilst I talk about the possible new tag that I suggest should be implemented please do not mistake it for the "!ask" tag, I support that tag being removed and am aware of its flaws. I am saying this due to the fact that during my discussion in the Python Server itself many members were under the impression I wanted to bring said tag back.
The command and the contents it should return.
Command: !gethelp Content:
This content is a rough draft I created whilst discussing this idea on the server. It can clearly be improved with slightly more work. For the sake of making my next arguments slightly less confusing please note that this command should be used after a user says something to the likes of "Where can I get help?" or "What channel can I ask my question?".
Arguments people have against this tag.
There are many, many issues people have argued, although in my opinion most of them are either fundamentally flawed or I disagree they're a problem in the first place. I will list all issues voiced by others:
I will be responding to the arguments in their respective order in the list. 1: If you are to concede that it is insensitive to use a command to propagate information to a user you need to think about the alternative, the general response to the question the user originally asks is
"Read in #how-to-get-help or ask in #python-general."I cannot understand how sending two-channel names in a sub-sentence response is any more "sensitive" than the bot's message. Do you think it is the humanity of us sending it over the bot? If so, your argument is ridiculous.2: It's not even a requirement to dispute what this argument states, instead you can just look fundamentally at what exactly it is talking about. In fact; it is not talking about the command in any way, instead, it's grasp reaches many embeds that are already widely supported by the community. This issue is one that should be fixed for all embeds with solutions like python-discord/bot#1382.
3: Once most people know the contents of the embed it is unlikely that it will be used incorrectly at all, the same can be done with other embeds too in fact. Although it is indeed possible some members of the community will abuse it; whether intentional or unintentional. That's why I suggest that this embed should be specific to #python-general as the question provoking this tag would nearly always be asked in that channel. This solves this entire problem with the tag.
4: The tag tells the reader about specialized channels and introduces them to a large part of the server, after reading this and reading #how-to-get-help as suggested they will be a fully-fledged community member never needing to ask questions again. It introduces them to the general etiquette of asking questions and acts of sort of a hub. Whilst it is very possible for them to simply read how-to-get-help, I think this is just better.
5: While tags are becoming more and more popular in python-general it is a great overstatement to say it will be used that much. Specifically, this tag should also only be used once per person ever and likely won't need to be used at all. I will also say, what is so bad about tags being used often? They're useful tools to help people quickly.
Conclusion.
Now, I ask you; if you are still not convinced about adding this tag, why? It makes it easier for question-askers to inform newer community members quickly and in a detailed manner. I hope this tag is seriously considered to be added, as it would help me help others.