IDLE/MAC: Command / Alt Bindings Don't Work

[9362b22c-5b20-470c-9b41-f3b475d29f69]

BPO	768469
Nosy	@warsaw, @kbkaiser

^{Note: these values reflect the state of the issue at the time it was migrated and might not reflect the current state.}

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GitHub fields: ```python assignee = 'https://github.com/kbkaiser' closed_at = created_at = labels = ['expert-IDLE'] title = "IDLE/MAC: Command / Alt Bindings Don't Work" updated_at = user = 'https://bugs.python.org/tiagoh' ``` bugs.python.org fields: ```python activity = actor = 'kbk' assignee = 'kbk' closed = True closed_date = None closer = None components = ['IDLE'] creation = creator = 'tiagoh' dependencies = [] files = [] hgrepos = [] issue_num = 768469 keywords = [] message_count = 21.0 messages = ['16986', '16987', '16988', '16989', '16990', '16991', '16992', '16993', '16994', '16995', '16996', '16997', '16998', '16999', '17000', '17001', '17002', '17003', '17004', '17005', '17006'] nosy_count = 4.0 nosy_names = ['barry', 'kbk', 'tonylownds', 'tiagoh'] pr_nums = [] priority = 'low' resolution = 'rejected' stage = None status = 'closed' superseder = None type = None url = 'https://bugs.python.org/issue768469' versions = ['Python 2.3'] ```

[9362b22c-5b20-470c-9b41-f3b475d29f69]

I'm running IDLE under MacOSX 10.2.6 using Python 2.3b2.

Using Apple's X11 beta 3 version, I am unable to access any of the shortcuts that use the Alt key, including the history keystrokes that recall past commands.

In my configuration at least, the Alt key is being used (as usual) to access special characters and accented characters.

Is there any way to bypass this, allowing the Alt key to be handled directly by IDLE?

[kbkaiser]

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It sounds to me like you don't have the Mac bindings enabled. Try Options / Configure IDLE / Keys and select the IDLE Classic Mac Key Set

[9362b22c-5b20-470c-9b41-f3b475d29f69]

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I've tried all three of the Built-in key sets, and the problem remains. I tried restarting idle to see if that was the problem, but I still have the same problem. Maybe there is something I'm missing, but it doesn't seem obvious to me how to make it work.

Unless I'm doing something stupid, this would be a serious defect with respect to IDLE usability under MacOSX

[kbkaiser]

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The "Classic Mac" keyset uses Control-Key-n for history-next and Control-Key-p for history-previous.

The Alt key isn't used in this keyset.
(The keyset is defined in config-keys.def)

Are you saying that when "Classic Mac" is set that Alt key accelerators are appearing in the menus?

[9362b22c-5b20-470c-9b41-f3b475d29f69]

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Keeping in mind Guido's goal of releasing Python2.3 by August 1st (so that it can be included with MacOSX 10.3), we should strive to make IDLE more Mac-friendly before that date:

In order to do this, we have to correct a few problems:

1) IDLE for MacOSX should use the [IDLE Classic Mac] keyset by default.

Users should not be forced discover that the key-bindings can be changed and then having to explicitly change the configuration. We want to attract newbies to Python, and IDLE should be the ideal tool for that.

2) The shortcut keys should work correctly.

Currently none of the key combinations that use the Command-key work for me, which forces me to use the mouse and the menus. The clipboard shortcuts (Com-C, Com-X, Com-V) do not work, and other common shortcuts (Com-S, Com-N, Com-O, Com-W) don't work either. Com-Q works, but it tries to exit X11 altogether, instead of closing IDLE.

I know Mac users are used to using the mouse, but power-users are also used to having the usual Command-key shortcuts (e.g. Command-S to save a file).

I've tried most shortcuts, and the only ones that seem to work for me are: remove-selection=\<Key-Escape> smart-backspace=\<Key-BackSpace> newline-and-indent=\<Key-Return> \<Key-KP_Enter> smart-indent=\<Key-Tab> beginning-of-line= \<Key-Home> end-of-file=\<Control-Key-d> (same as Delete key) history-next=\<Control-Key-n> history-previous=\<Control-Key-p> interrupt-execution=\<Control-Key-c> restart-shell=\<Control-Key-F6> comment-region=\<Control-Key-3> uncomment-region=\<Control-Key-4> tabify-region=\<Control-Key-5> untabify-region=\<Control-Key-6> toggle-auto-coloring=\<Control-Key-slash> toggle-tabs=\<Control-Key-t> change-indentwidth=\<Control-Key-u> find-again=\<Command-Key-g> \<Key-F3> (only the latter works)

Some shortcuts do not seem do to anything, although I might be mistaken since I do not know exactly what they are meant to do: center-insert=\<Control-Key-l> view-restart=\<Key-F6> do-nothing=\<Control-Key-F12>

The End key works correctly, although there is no end-of-line entry in the config-keys.def corresponding to it, as there is for the Home key (beginning-of-line= \<Key-Home>).

The usual Windows shortcuts work: Ctl-Home, Ctl-End, Ctl-Up, Ctl-Down, Ctl-Left, Ctl-Right

Some common emacs bindings work as well (I only tested the most basic bindings): Ctl-p, Ctl-n, Ctl-b, Ctl-f, Ctl-a, Ctl-e

3) Eliminate incorrect shortcuts from menus.

Although none of the shortcuts listed in the [IDLE Classic Mac] section of file /usr/local/lib/python2.3/idlelib/config-keys.def uses the Alt key, several menus show shortcuts that use that key (and which do not work):

• In the Python Shell window: Edit -> Expand Word (Alt-/) Windows -> Zoom Height (Alt-2)
• In the Editor window: Format -> Format Paragraph (Alt-Q) Run -> Check Module (Alt-X)

There doesn't seem to be any entry in config-keys.def corresponding to these shortcuts.

4) The "IDLE Help" window should be updated.

Currently, it lists a few shortcuts that do not work in MacOSX. Quoting: """ Command history:

Alt-p retrieves previous command matching what you have typed
Alt-n retrieves next
Return while on any previous command retrieves that command
Alt-/ (Expand word) is also useful here

"""

A help document that gives incorrect information is worse than having no information.

5) Dialog Boxes should be keyboard friendly.

Presently I cannot use the keyboard to choose Dialog Box buttons (Yes or No buttons, for instance). The only keys that seem to work are Escape and Return.

6) Menus should be keyboard friendly.

The Alt-Underlined_Letter method that is used to navigate menus in the Windows world doesn't seem to work with IDLE in MacOSX.

Although this doesn't seem to be documented, F10 can be used to open the first menu item, which enables us to operate menus with the keyboard although this is not as efficient as direct menu access.

[9362b22c-5b20-470c-9b41-f3b475d29f69]

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With respect to item 5) in my previous message (user-friendly dialog boxes), the Tab key can be used to cycle between buttons, which in conjunction with the Return key improves keyboard usability a lot.

[9362b22c-5b20-470c-9b41-f3b475d29f69]

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With respect to question 3 in a previous message, some keybindings seem to be hardcoded:

\<\<expand-word>> command, from AutoExpand.py: Defined somewhere as \<Alt-Key-/>.

\<\<zoom-height>> command, from ZoomHeight.py: Defined as \<Alt-Key-2> in TreeWidget.py.

\<\<format-paragraph>> command, from FormatParagraph.py: Defined somewhere as \<Alt-Key-q>.

\<\<check-module>> and \<\<run-module>> commands, from ScriptBinding.py: Defined somewhere as \<Alt-Key-x> and \<Key-F5>.

Several commands from files Bindings.py, EditorWindow.py and PyShell.py do not have any key bindings: \<\<about-idle>>, \<\<goto-file-line>>, \<\<help>>, \<\<open-config-dialog>>, \<\<open-path-browser>>, \<\<open-stack-viewer>>, \<\<toggle-debugger>>, \<\<toggle-jit-stack-viewer>>, \<\<open-python-shell>>, \<\<clear-breakpoint-here>> and \<\<set-breakpoint-here>>.

It would be cool to have keybindings for some of these, and even cooler to be able to rebind them.

[9362b22c-5b20-470c-9b41-f3b475d29f69]

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With respect to problem 2, there is an easy workaround, although it's not the ideal solution.

If I change all keybinding using the Alt-key in the [IDLE Classic Mac] section of config-keys.def to use Meta instead of Alt, suddenly many of the shortcuts work using the Command key (a.k.a Apple key).

However, it seems that those shortcuts that are already being used by X11 take precedence:

Command-Q tries to quit X11 and not IDLE and Command-W closes any X11 window, not just IDLE windows.

There is a simple workaround to this problem. For some reason, if we use the Control-Command combination for Meta instead of just the Command key, most shortcuts seem to work.

[kbkaiser]

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First, I would like you to answer this question:

"What Alt keybindings are in the [IDLE Classic Mac] section of your config-keys.def and how did they get there, since there are none in the distributed version of that file?"

Then, please read extend.txt and review the config-extensions.def file. The current implementation of the configuration dialog does not have the ability to customize the extension keybindings.

It may be possible to provide a special version of config-extensions.def for the Mac. I will investigate.

[9362b22c-5b20-470c-9b41-f3b475d29f69]

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Sorry, my confusion. Since I edited my original config-keys.def file, I forgot that the [IDLE Classic Mac] shortcuts used the Command modifier, and not Alt. This confusion is only made in my last message. If you replace "Command" with "Alt" in that message, everything makes sense:

""" If I change all keybinding using the Command-key in the [IDLE Classic Mac] section of config-keys.def to use Meta instead of Command, suddenly many of the shortcuts work using the Command key (a.k.a Apple key).

However, it seems that those shortcuts that are already being used by X11 take precedence:

Command-Q tries to quit X11 and not IDLE and Command-W closes any X11 window, not just IDLE windows.

There is a simple workaround to this problem. For some reason, if we use the Control-Command combination for Meta instead of just the Command key, most shortcuts seem to work. """

[9362b22c-5b20-470c-9b41-f3b475d29f69]

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Using the original [IDLE Classic Mac] shortcut keys definitions, the only Command shortcuts that do anything are the following:

Command-Q: tries to quit X11 instead of IDLE Command-W: closes X11 windows instead of IDLE windows Command-B: go to beginning of word Command-F: go to end of word Command-D: delete next word Command-H: hide X11 Command-M: minimize window Command-,: X11 preferences dialog

[9362b22c-5b20-470c-9b41-f3b475d29f69]

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The file extend.txt references two files that do not exist: keydefs and config.txt

I suppose the former corresponds config-keys.def, while the latter has been split into 3 files: config-main.def, config-extensions.def and config-highlight.def.

Is this correct?

Looking into config-extensions.def, I can finally see were those non-standard key sequences are defined:

[FormatParagraph_cfgBindings] format-paragraph=\<Alt-Key-q> (...) [AutoExpand_cfgBindings] expand-word=\<Alt-Key-slash> (...) [ZoomHeight_cfgBindings] zoom-height=\<Alt-Key-2> (...) [ScriptBinding_cfgBindings] run-module=\<Key-F5> check-module=\<Alt-Key-x>

It would nice if these key bindings for extension modules could be put in the same file as the standard key bindings. Even nicer if the configuration dialog could be used to change all key bindings.

[kbkaiser]

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Thank you for reporting the issues with help.txt and extend.txt. I will update these files. You are correct about the renaming, extend.txt has not been updated since the new config system was implemented.

I agree it would be nice to set the extension configuration from the configuration dialog. However, we are much too close to release to contemplate doing that for 2.3.

The extension feature is intended to incorporate 3rd party features so the enhancement of the config dialog would have to be suitably general.

Your problem appears to be down to one thing: none of IDLE's "Classic Mac" Command combinations in your config-keys.def work. If I understand you correctly, you are saying that e.g. replacing "Command-Key-w" by "Meta-Key-w" in config-keys.def causes the \<\<close-window>> event to work correctly?

Note that Tk is very picky about capitalization.
"Command-Key-w" is not the same as "Command-Key-W".
Please be sure that your file is correct in this regard. If you can get everything working by doing this, would you please upload the modified version of your config-keys.def and let me know what the remaining problems are, if any.

In your messages you have variously said that both "Command-B" and "Ctl-b" keystrokes go to the beginning of a word. Is this correct? And do you really mean "Apple/Shift/b" in the first case?

The Ctl-b binding and others like it that you have mentioned in your earlier message are part of a number of default Tk bindings that have not been disabled in IDLE.

http://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8.3/TkCmd/text.htm#M141

Clearly, there may not be complete compatibility with this documentation in the Tk Mac implementation. But that is the origin of the bindings.

By the way, the way to customize is not to modify config-keys.def, but to modify your .idlerc/config-keys.cfg or any of the other files in that directory.

That is what the config dialog does, and it is quite all right to modify it manually as long as you carefully follow the format.

[9362b22c-5b20-470c-9b41-f3b475d29f69]

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Thanks for the instructive comments. Here are some answers:

1) The problems are the following:

a) The standard key bindings are the IDLE Classic Windows key bindings, which do not work.

• None of the many bindings that use the Alt modifier work, since the Alt (a.k.a. Option) key is used in MacOSX for accents and symbols.

b) The IDLE Classic Mac key bindings do not work.

• Most of them require the Command key, which for some unknown reason do not seem to work.

c) The IDLE Classic Unix key bindings mostly work, but are unsatisfactory.

• These bindings replace many "chord" key bindings with emacs style shortcuts, which are frankly unpleasant to use for 99% of people not used to emacs. Also, there are still several of these Unix key bindings that use the Alt modifier, and which thus do not work in MacOSX. In spite of all this, it is the most usable of the 3 default schemes.

d) 5 key bindings used by extensions are currently not rebindable: Alt-Key-q, Alt-Key-slash, Alt-Key-2, Alt-Key-x and Key-F5. Since 4 of them use the Alt modifier, they do not work under MacOSX

e) Some bits of extend.txt and help.txt are outdated.

2) A slightly awkward workaround to problem 1.b:

What I meant was that by replacing Command with Meta in key bindings means that many but far from all Command bindings work.

By chance, I discovered that using the Control-Command combination instead of just the Command modifier makes most if not all Meta bindings work. It seems as if Meta really is interpreted as Control-Command, with Command working sometimes.

This is not very satisfactory, but it's better than any of the other 3 default bindings.

3) Regarding capitalization:

I discovered by accident that Tk keybindings are case sensitive. However, all bindings mentioned by me treat capitals and lowercase letters identically, i.e. when I wrote Command-B, I really meant Command-b, and not Command-Shift-b. I'll take care not make that confusion from now on.

4) Command-b and Control-b:

The bindings mentioned in my 2003-07-11 18:48 message are Command bindings. Command-b and Command-f really do move to the beginning and end of words, unlike Control-b and Control-f, which move one character back and one character forward.

I have no idea why some these Command bindings work, but the fact is they do.

5) It might be useful to get other MacOSX users to check my findings, since there might quirks with my configuration which I'm not aware of.

[9362b22c-5b20-470c-9b41-f3b475d29f69]

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Proposal for new key binding scheme \===================================

Problem -------

Due to several reasons discussed in my previous messages, the 3 available key binding schemes for IDLE in MacOSX are not satisfactory for various reasons, the main one being that the Alt/Option modifier is preempted by MacOSX for accented characters and symbols, and the Command/Apple modifier is preempted by X11 for several shortcuts.

Considering that IDLE is supposed to be a tool for beginners as well as for more advanced programmers, the key binding scheme for Windows (which is currently the default scheme) also has a few problems. Although all shortcuts in the [IDLE Classic Windows] key binding scheme seem to work, they use an inconsistent mix of modifier keys that hinders learning and makes it difficult to use in platforms where modifier keys work differently. Most of these shortcuts use the Control and Alt modifiers, but some shortcuts use 2 or more modifiers or a third modifier:

Control modifier: close-all-windows=\<Control-Key-q>

Alt/Meta modifier: close-window=\<Alt-Key-F4> \<Meta-Key-F4>

Shift modifier: python-context-help=\<Shift-Key-F1>

Several modifiers: redo=\<Control-Shift-Key-z> save-copy-of-window-as-file=\<Alt-Shift-Key-s>

Proposal --------

I propose to use a new key binding scheme that uses one single modifier key for all shortcuts in order to increase learnability and portability. The Control modifier is the natural choice for the standard modifier, since unlike the Alt, Command or Windows modifiers it is not usually used for standard OS shortcuts.

I am attaching to this message my \~/.idlerc/config-keys.cfg file containing the bindings for this scheme, which I have tentatively named [IDLE Modern]. My hope is to have this scheme become one of the additional schemes shipped with IDLE, and perhaps even replace the [IDLE Classic Windows] scheme as the default scheme for IDLE on all platforms.

Rationale ---------

I tried to preserve most bindings that have become common in Mac, Windows and Linux applications, and change non-standard bindings to standard. I have also changed all bindings that use a modifier different from Control, sometimes using a similar binding (e.g. \<Control-Key-3> instead of \<Alt-Key-3> for the \<\<comment-region>> virtual event), sometimes using a completely different binding.

I strived to use only alphabetical keys, numerical keys and function keys, since other characters tend to shift according to which keyboard layout one is using. For instance, in the Portuguese keyboard layout the bracket characters have to accessed using a special modifier key, labeled AltGr (for Alt Graphics) together with a numeric key (AltGr-Key-7 and AltGr-Key-8), while the slash character has to be written using Shift-Key-7. This means that the standard bindings for the \<\<dedent-region>>, \<\<indent-region>> and \<\<expand-word>> virtual events are difficult if not impossible to access with a Portuguese keyboard layout. One possible solution, which I chose many years ago, is to memorize the American keyboard layout and use that layout for all programming and command-line work, regardless of the actual labels on your keys. Although not really that difficult, this is a step that most people will understandably refuse to take. A more acceptable solution is to avoid using non-alphanumeric characters, which tend to vary a lot more from one layout to the other.

I also tried to bind semantically similar virtual events to neighbouring keys, as is already the case with the standard clipboard shortcuts, which occupy 3 neighbouring keys in the same row (x, c and v). For instance, all find commands are placed sequentially in the same row (f, g, h, j and k). All save commands are placed in neighbouring keys (s, e and r). The dedent and indent events are moved to the same row as 4 other events that affect a region, like comment and uncomment (numeric keys row, 1 to 9), along with some other events associated with tabs.

Finally, 2 of the most used virtual events, \<\<history-next>> and \<\<history-previous>>, are now bound to \<Control-Key-Down> and \<Control-Key-Up>, which should be much more obvious than \<Control-Key-n> and \<Control-Key-p>. The old bindings are hard to understand unless you have a history of Emacs ab^H^Huse, and are not as intuitive as using the arrows with a modifier key.

Extension bindings ------------------

The key bindings for virtual events belonging to IDLE extensions are currently defined in config-extensions.def and are not customizable directly from IDLE. Since 4 of these virtual events currently use the Alt modifier, they conflict with the above rationale of using one single modifier key for all shortcuts, viz. the Control key. I propose to expand these currents shortcuts with another key bindings that fits in with the proposed [IDLE Modern] scheme:

format-paragraph=\<Control-Key-0> \<Alt-Key-q> expand-word=\<Control-Key-Tab> \<Alt-Key-slash> zoom-height=\<Key-F2> \<Alt-Key-2> run-module=\<Key-F5> # unchanged check-module=\<Key-F4> \<Alt-Key-x>

Binding changes ---------------

Comparison of [IDLE Modern] bindings to [IDLE Classic Windows] bindings:

a) Identical bindings:

beginning-of-line=\<Key-Home> close-all-windows=\<Control-Key-q> # modifier-q is a standard binding for 'quit' in Mac (increasingly used in Windows) copy=\<Control-Key-c> # modifier-c is a standard binding 'copy' in Windows and Mac cut=\<Control-Key-x> # modifier-x is a standard binding 'cut' in Windows and Mac do-nothing=\<Control-Key-F12> end-of-file=\<Control-Key-d> find=\<Control-Key-f> # modifier-f is a standard binding for 'find' in Windows and Mac newline-and-indent=\<Key-Return> open-new-window=\<Control-Key-n> # modifier-n is a standard binding for 'new' in Windows and Mac open-window-from-file=\<Control-Key-o> # modifier-o is a standard binding for 'open' in Windows and Mac paste=\<Control-Key-v> # modifier-v is a standard binding for 'paste' in Windows and Mac print-window=\<Control-Key-p> # modifier-p is a standard binding for 'print' in Windows and Mac python-docs=\<Key-F1> remove-selection=\<Key-Escape> replace=\<Control-Key-h> # modifier-h is a standard binding for 'replace' in Windows and Mac save-window=\<Control-Key-s> # modifier-s is a standard binding for 'save' in Windows and Mac select-all=\<Control-Key-a> # modifier-a is a standard binding for 'select-all' in Windows and Mac smart-backspace=\<Key-BackSpace> smart-indent=\<Key-Tab> undo=\<Control-Key-z> # modifier-z is a standard binding for 'undo' in Windows and Mac view-restart=\<Key-F6>

b) Similar bindings (Alt or Meta modifier replaced with Control modifier):

comment-region=\<Control-Key-3> open-module=\<Control-Key-m> uncomment-region=\<Control-Key-4> tabify-region=\<Control-Key-5> untabify-region=\<Control-Key-6>

c) Changed bindings:

center-insert=\<Control-Key-t> change-indentwidth=\<Control-Key-7> close-window=\<Control-Key-w> # modifier-w is a standard binding for 'close-window' in Mac (increasingly used in Windows) dedent-region=\<Control-Key-1> find-again=\<Control-Key-g> # modifier-g is a standard binding for 'find-again' in Windows and Mac find-in-files=\<Control-k> find-selection=\<Control-Key-j> goto-line=\<Control-Key-l> # modifier-l is a common but not standard binding for 'goto-line' in Windows and Mac history-next=\<Control-Key-Down> history-previous=\<Control-Key-Up> indent-region=\<Control-Key-2> interrupt-execution=\<Control-Key-i> open-class-browser=\<Control-Key-b> plain-newline-and-indent=\<Control-u> python-context-help=\<Control-Key-F1> redo=\<Control-Key-y> # modifier-y is a common but not standard binding for 'redo' in Windows and Mac restart-shell=\<Key-F7> save-copy-of-window-as-file=\<Control-Key-r> save-window-as-file=\<Control-Key-e> toggle-auto-coloring=\<Control-Key-9> toggle-tabs=\<Control-Key-8>

Bindings ordered by key -----------------------

smart-backspace=\<Key-BackSpace> remove-selection=\<Key-Escape> beginning-of-line=\<Key-Home> newline-and-indent=\<Key-Return> \<Key-KP_Enter> smart-indent=\<Key-Tab>

python-docs=\<Key-F1> view-restart=\<Key-F6> restart-shell=\<Key-F7>

python-context-help=\<Control-Key-F1> do-nothing=\<Control-Key-F12>

history-previous=\<Control-Key-Up> history-next=\<Control-Key-Down>

dedent-region=\<Control-Key-1> indent-region=\<Control-Key-2> comment-region=\<Control-Key-3> uncomment-region=\<Control-Key-4> tabify-region=\<Control-Key-5> untabify-region=\<Control-Key-6> change-indentwidth=\<Control-Key-7> toggle-tabs=\<Control-Key-8> toggle-auto-coloring=\<Control-Key-9>

select-all=\<Control-Key-a> open-class-browser=\<Control-Key-b> copy=\<Control-Key-c> end-of-file=\<Control-Key-d> save-window-as-file=\<Control-Key-e> find=\<Control-Key-f> find-again=\<Control-Key-g> replace=\<Control-Key-h> interrupt-execution=\<Control-Key-i> find-selection=\<Control-Key-j> find-in-files=\<Control-Key-k> goto-line=\<Control-Key-l> open-module=\<Control-Key-m> open-new-window=\<Control-Key-n> open-window-from-file=\<Control-Key-o> print-window=\<Control-Key-p> close-all-windows=\<Control-Key-q> save-copy-of-window-as-file=\<Control-Key-r> save-window=\<Control-Key-s> center-insert=\<Control-Key-t> plain-newline-and-indent=\<Control-Key-u> paste=\<Control-Key-v> close-window=\<Control-Key-w> cut=\<Control-Key-x> redo=\<Control-Key-y> undo=\<Control-Key-z>

[9362b22c-5b20-470c-9b41-f3b475d29f69]

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File attachment doesn't seem to be working for me using Mozilla Firebird. Here is the tentative [IDLE Modern] key binding scheme, ordered by virtual event name:

[IDLE Modern] beginning-of-line=\<Key-Home> center-insert=\<Control-Key-t> change-indentwidth=\<Control-Key-7> close-all-windows=\<Control-Key-q> close-window=\<Control-Key-w> comment-region=\<Control-Key-3> copy=\<Control-Key-c> cut=\<Control-Key-x> dedent-region=\<Control-Key-1> do-nothing=\<Control-Key-F12> end-of-file=\<Control-Key-d> find-again=\<Control-Key-g> find-in-files=\<Control-Key-k> find-selection=\<Control-Key-j> find=\<Control-Key-f> goto-line=\<Control-Key-l> history-next=\<Control-Key-Down> history-previous=\<Control-Key-Up> indent-region=\<Control-Key-2> interrupt-execution=\<Control-Key-i> newline-and-indent=\<Key-Return> \<Key-KP_Enter> open-class-browser=\<Control-Key-b> open-module=\<Control-Key-m> open-new-window=\<Control-Key-n> open-window-from-file=\<Control-Key-o> paste=\<Control-Key-v> plain-newline-and-indent=\<Control-Key-u> print-window=\<Control-Key-p> python-context-help=\<Control-Key-F1> python-docs=\<Key-F1> redo=\<Control-Key-y> remove-selection=\<Key-Escape> replace=\<Control-Key-h> restart-shell=\<Key-F7> save-copy-of-window-as-file=\<Control-Key-r> save-window-as-file=\<Control-Key-e> save-window=\<Control-Key-s> select-all=\<Control-Key-a> smart-backspace=\<Key-BackSpace> smart-indent=\<Key-Tab> tabify-region=\<Control-Key-5> toggle-auto-coloring=\<Control-Key-9> toggle-tabs=\<Control-Key-8> uncomment-region=\<Control-Key-4> undo=\<Control-Key-z> untabify-region=\<Control-Key-6> view-restart=\<Key-F6>

[kbkaiser]

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I'd like to focus on the bug rather than an RFE for a new keyset. I'd suggest that you use [IDLE Modern] for a couple of months and then post your suggestion to the Idle-dev email list for comment.

Please note that the Shift modifier isn't working because there is a bug (already reported on the IDLEfork Tracker).

I have asked the IDLEfork Mac expert to take a look at this bug, which is that the Command-[something] bindings don't work (unless they happen to be default Tk bindings).

There is also an issue with the use of Alt keys in the extensions. Originally, IDLE had the ability to define extension keybindings for each platform. These were eliminated in IDLEfork with, I believe, the intention to expand the configuration dialog to replace them. However, that has not as yet been accomplished.

[kbkaiser]

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Lib/idlelib: Updated extend.txt (Rev 1.4), help.txt (Rev 1.10), and config-extensions.def (Rev 1.12) to partially correct the issues this bug raised.

[f061053c-37fe-4bf6-ad3e-9d9600654e34]

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[tiagoh]

Using Apple's X11 beta 3 version, I am unable to access any of the shortcuts that use the Alt key, including the history keystrokes that recall past commands. ... Is there any way to bypass this, allowing the Alt key to be handled directly by IDLE?

So, IDLE is running under X11?

Perhaps you can bypass the undesirable behavior by changing the configuration of the X11 server. IDLE can not do anything to help in your situation, AFAIK, as it is X11 that is not giving the keystrokes to Tk. Have you tried using the native-windowing- system version of Tk, instead of Tk through X11? Mac keys bindings work smoothly, you can even override \<Alt-Key> \<Option-Key> bindings if you like.

[tiagoh again]

Unless I'm doing something stupid, this would be a serious defect with respect to IDLE usability under MacOSX

It is a serious defect to usability with respect to IDLE usability under MacOSX *under X11*. That is a big difference. Perhaps some information about using native Tk instead of through X11 would be good to add. Unless I am missing something about your software setup.

[warsaw]

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Is there something that I need to decide on for Python 2.3 final? Realize that time has nearly run out so only absolutely critical fixes (or documentation changes) can go in.

I'm lowering the priority since there doesn't seem to be anything critical for 2.3 final. If you disagree, please raise priority back to 7 and describe exactly what you'd like for me to decide on.

[kbkaiser]

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Closing as not a Python issue. Please feel free to re-open if there is something further to discuss.