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quintel / etengine

Calculation engine for the Energy Transition Model
https://energytransitionmodel.com/
MIT License
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Create 'Diesel Engine' converter in power plants section #235

Closed AlexanderWirtz closed 12 years ago

AlexanderWirtz commented 12 years ago

@cjlaumans It only makes sense to include this plant if the ETM needs it for the Merit Order project, so please verify that first. If it needs to be added, try and see if E.On can give us the required plant data for this.

wmeyers commented 12 years ago

There is one other reason to add it: we have quite a bit of oil use for power generation in the Netherlands (25 PJ), we now claim that this is all fired as co-firing in gas power plants, but that comes down to almost 10% of all the fuel burned in these plants. It therefore makes sense to add a technology that produces power from oil or oil derivatives. What do you think @AlexanderWirtz and @cjlaumans?

AlexanderWirtz commented 12 years ago

you are right. @cjlaumans taught me these are the actual peak plants

cjlaumans commented 12 years ago

@ChaelKruip has created the new converter. Now the research has to be done which I will be responsible for.

WvanLelyveld commented 12 years ago

@wmeyers: Is it still true the diesel generator is required to correctly reflect the Dutch dataset? I heard this information may be outdated. If so, we may not need this converter/slider at all.

wmeyers commented 12 years ago

yes

WvanLelyveld commented 12 years ago

ok... we'll keep this issue open. Status is that we are currently waiting for data for this converter.

cjlaumans commented 12 years ago

What information is available concerning the diesel generators in the Dutch dataset? I'm now looking into data for the diesel engine converter, and have found a few different types. In particular differentiated by their fuel type: crude liquid biofuel, heavy fuel oil, and light fuel oil. I assume that in the Netherlands it is light fuel oil, since that is also suitable for gas turbines. Do you think this assumption is correct? Edit: Does the Netherlands actually have diesel generators? or is it simply gas turbines using fuel oils?

cjlaumans commented 12 years ago

Ok, I have information on 5 different power plant types that use oil as fuel. Which do we want?

All the specs I have come from 1 source, the book "Planning of optimal power systems" by Asko Vuorinen. It is a 2009 edition and all data is for power plants to be commissioned in 2012. For each of the power plants I have investment costs, fixed costs, and variable costs. Fixed costs include operating personnel, personnel costs, and other fixed O&M costs. Variable costs include maintenance costs, start-up costs, material costs, CO2 emissions costs.

@AlexanderWirtz @wmeyers . Let me know which we want to use.

wmeyers commented 12 years ago

It seems easy, until you read the last line of the CBS description of the field they write the electricity production using gas- and diesel oil under:

Zware olie in gebruik als brandstof in dieselmotoren en verwarmingsinstallaties. Het kookpunt hiervan ligt tussen 180 en 380 graden Celsius. De meeste algemene naam voor deze olie is gasolie. Echter in de praktijk wordt vaak over dieselolie gesproken vanwege het gebruik in dieselmotoren. Tot dit product behoort ook lichte stookolie, ook bekend als huisbrandolie. Hiervan loopt het kookpunt op tot 540 graden Celsius.

Since it's only about 0.6 PJ used for electricity/CHP production I would say we are not talking baseload here. I would go for either a diesel engine on light fuel oil, or a type of gas turbine. @AlexanderWirtz do you have an opinion based on this information?

wmeyers commented 12 years ago

This stuff is burned in three distinct sectors according to CBS: 1/3 by energy companies (.18 PJ) 1/3 in the agriculture and buildings sector (not split up further by CBS) (.20 PJ) 1/3 in the waste and water treatment sector (.21 PJ)

AlexanderWirtz commented 12 years ago

Jezus Christ what a waste of time then. No need to add for NL, but I understood Flanders needs it. Maybe they can help. I have no opinion.

cjlaumans commented 12 years ago

I guess I'll close this ticket, seems like it isn't worth while to add the diesel engine now.

wmeyers commented 12 years ago

I have already asked Flanders to help, but no useable reply so far. Haven't been chasing them tho...

wmeyers commented 11 years ago

Hoi Dennis en Alex, cc WvL

Daarnet tijdens ons overleg hebben we een aantal besluiten genomen. Hier een korte samenvatting. Alex, als jij het ergens niet mee eens bent, of als je nog aanvullingen hebt, graag ASAP reactie!

Dennis, heb ik nog wat gemist?

Grtz,

Wouter

Wouter Meyers

Quintel Intelligence Atrium - Strawinskylaan 3051 1077 ZX Amsterdam The Netherlands

Visiting address: Keizersgracht 639 1017 DT Amsterdam

T: (+31) 6 – 53 20 29 41

E : wouter.meyers@quintel.com I : http://www.energytransitionmodel.com

wmeyers commented 11 years ago

Nope, prima! Thanks

2012/8/16 Wouter Meyers wouter.meyers@quintel.com

Hoi Dennis en Alex, cc WvL

Daarnet tijdens ons overleg hebben we een aantal besluiten genomen. Hier een korte samenvatting. Alex, als jij het ergens niet mee eens bent, of als je nog aanvullingen hebt, graag ASAP reactie!

  • We gaan van alle converters met kosten de research data in output capacity waarden opgeven en dit gaat ook zo het model in
  • Om dit te laten werken moeten alle converters op dezelfde manier hun kosten gedefinieerd worden. Dit betekent als concrete verandering dat de kosten van elektriciteitscentrales en WKK's gedefinieerd worden per unit, in plaats van per MWe.
  • Voor de kostenberekening zetten we de output capacity om in input capacity, om makkelijker te kunnen rekenen tussen de verschillende soorten converters. Dit kunnen we slim doen aan de hand van welke efficiencies groter zijn dan 0.
  • We gaan een gelimiteerde set van methodes aanbieden die in GQL gebruikt kunnen worden om dingen uit te vragen. We gebruiken hier de MethodMissing functionaliteit van Ruby om in GQL 'total_cost_per_MW' te kunnen schrijven en hiervoor een methode 'total_cost' aan te roepen die gebruikt wordt om per MW, per MWh, per MJ, per unit, per converter etc uit te rekenen.
  • We gaan private methods gebruiken om zoveel mogelijk van de 'full_load_seconds' en andere gekke methoden die we nu hebben te verbergen buiten de Qernel.

Dennis, heb ik nog wat gemist?

Grtz,

Wouter

Wouter Meyers

Quintel Intelligence Atrium - Strawinskylaan 3051 1077 ZX Amsterdam The Netherlands

Visiting address: Keizersgracht 639 1017 DT Amsterdam

T: (+31) 6 – 53 20 29 41

E : wouter.meyers@quintel.com I : http://www.energytransitionmodel.com

Dennis Schoenmakers

Quintel Intelligence Atrium - Strawinskylaan 3051 1077 ZX Amsterdam The Netherlands

T : +31 (0)20 301 22 69 F : +31 (0)20 301 22 02 M : +31 (0)6 109 65 293

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