Issues/Observations when cleaning Fallout 3 DLCs

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago

What steps will reproduce the problem?
1. Load FO3Edit
2. Apply Filter for Cleaning
3. Clean ITMs then UDRs for each DLC

What is the expected output?
That the ESMs will save properly and cause no errors in-game.

What do you see instead?
1 of the DLCs would not save after cleaning the ITMs (BrokenSteel.esm). 
After cleaning Zeta.esm and attempting to load Fallout 3, the game gives a CTD 
before reaching the main menu.

What version of the product are you using? On what operating system?
I am using the latest patch for Fallout 3 (1.7.0.3) on Windows 7 64-bit.

Please provide any additional information below. All of my observations are 
listed below.

With versions of Edit prior to 3.0.22, it made DLC added landscape disappear, 
but this does not appear to be the case anymore.
All tests done with *Edit v3.0.23
I had no other mods loaded when testing the cleaned DLCs in-game, and only 
loaded 1 DLC at a time.

Anchorage.esm
- No issues with cleaning ITMs
- No issues with cleaning UDRs as well

ThePitt.esm
- No issues with cleaning ITMs
- There were a total of 5 UDRs, all were navmeshes, and they were not cleaned.

BrokenSteel.esm
- Upon Attempting to clean ITMs it gives the following message:
[Removing "Identical to Master" records done]  Processed Records: 42284 Removed 
Records: 425 Elapsed Time: 00:00
[00:00] Saving: BrokenSteel.esm.save.2012_10_21_19_03_13
[00:00] Error saving BrokenSteel.esm.save.2012_10_21_19_03_13: Assertion 
failure (D:\Projects\TES5Edit\wbImplementation.pas, line 7501)
[00:00] Errors have occured. At least one file was not saved.

- Cleaning of UDRs was a success, Edit cleaned 34 of them), but like 
ThePitt.esm it left the deleted Navmeshes alone:
[Undeleting and Disabling References done]  Processed Records: 42284 Undeleted 
Records: 34 Elapsed Time: 00:01
<Warning: Plugin contains 12 deleted NavMeshes which can not be undeleted>
[00:00] Saving: BrokenSteel.esm.save.2012_10_21_19_07_58
[00:01] Done saving.

- Loading the ESM in-game was a success, but I am not far enough in the main 
questline to check DLC specific areas

PointLookout.esm
- No issues with cleaning ITMs
- No issues with cleaning UDRs (None Detected).

Zeta.esm
- Got a CTD immedatly after seeing the first "slide", before even reaching the 
main menu.
- No issues with cleaning UDRs (None Detected).
- Was only able to load the original Zeta.esm successfully.

I only briefly surveyed the intro areas for each DLC and I encountered no 
issues (Except as noted above).

Are deleted navmeshes supposed to be ignored for cleaning for Fallout 3?

Original issue reported on code.google.com by jamesmin...@gmail.com on 22 Oct 2012 at 4:07

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago

Just wanted to clarify the Zeta.esm issue:

Zeta.esm
- The ITMs cleaned without issue, but I received a CTD upon loading Fallout 3, 
before even reaching the main menu.
- No issues with cleaning UDRs (None Detected).
- Was only able to load the original Zeta.esm successfully.

Original comment by jamesmin...@gmail.com on 22 Oct 2012 at 4:32

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago

I don't have FO3, so all you can do is to try to find the reason yourself.
Apply filter for cleaning, but then instead of cleaning the whole plugin, right 
click on a group of records and clean 1 group at a time. Save and try and in 
game. That way you can find a "faulty" group.
After that I'll try to check record definitions for that group, because CTD 
after cleaning probably means that something important was removed. This can 
occure due to a incorrect definitions.

Original comment by zila...@gmail.com on 22 Oct 2012 at 6:13

Changed state: Evaluating

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago

Also before starting that process above... try to run FO3Edit with -nofixup 
command line parameter and clean DLCs. Then check in game.

Original comment by zila...@gmail.com on 22 Oct 2012 at 6:29

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago

I tried the -nofixup switch, I was able to clean the ITMs from BrokenSteel.esm 
and actually save the file, and Zeta.esm caused no more crashes before the main 
menu. It did however cause the disappearing landscape bug from previous 
versions of *Edit to return.

The disappearing landscape bug was discussed in this post on the BGS forums:

http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1170465-a-question-about-fo3edit-and-undelete-a
nd-disable/page__st__30__p__17319931#entry17319931

The issue appears effects vanilla landscape modified by the DLCs, and appears 
to effect exterior worldspaces (Point Lookout area, mothership zeta deck, 
anchorage simulation, etc).

Original comment by jamesmin...@gmail.com on 22 Oct 2012 at 7:23

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago

[deleted comment]

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago

BrokenSteel.esm
The only record group that causes the esm to not save is Dialog Topic. Output 
Below:

Removing: [INFO:000C6E73] ('My... thank you. Thank you so much. You've saved my 
life. Bless you.' in GRUP Topic Children of WaterBeggarGreetingGiveWaterYES "I 
insist, my friend. It's the least I can do to help." [DIAL:000C6E68] for 
WaterBeggars "WaterBeggars" [QUST:000C6E93])
Removing: [INFO:000AFC07] (in GRUP Topic Children of 
RadioGNRPlayerExploitsRELAY "RadioGNRPlayerExploitsRELAY" [DIAL:000AFBFF] for 
RadioGalaxyNewsQuest "Galaxy News Radio" [QUST:00022486])
Removing: StartCombatResponse "StartCombatResponse" [DIAL:00080D81]
Removing: DeathResponse "DeathResponse" [DIAL:0001FB51]
Removing: [INFO:000657E0] ('What's up Wastelanders? This is Three Dog, and 
you're listening to GNR! That's Galaxy News Radio, in case you forgot...' in 
GRUP Topic Children of RadioHello "RadioHello" [DIAL:00000126] for 
RadioGalaxyNewsQuest "Galaxy News Radio" [QUST:00022486])
Removing: [INFO:000657D1] ('GNR. Three Dog. All you need to know.' in GRUP 
Topic Children of RadioHello "RadioHello" [DIAL:00000126] for 
RadioGalaxyNewsQuest "Galaxy News Radio" [QUST:00022486])
Removing: RadioHello "RadioHello" [DIAL:00000126]
Removing: FireExplosive "FireExplosive" [DIAL:000000EC]
Removing: StealNoCrime "StealNoCrime" [DIAL:000000EA]
Removing: PickpocketNoCrime "PickpocketNoCrime" [DIAL:000000E9]
Removing: MurderNoCrime "MurderNoCrime" [DIAL:000000E8]
Removing: [INFO:0004BDB8] ('And I shall follow.' in GRUP Topic Children of 
GOODBYE "I have to go now." [DIAL:000000D4] for Followers "Quest to Handle 
Followers" [QUST:000371D1])
[Removing "Identical to Master" records done]  Processed Records: 2119 Removed 
Records: 12 Elapsed Time: 00:00

Zeta.esm
There are 4 record groups that have ITMs to clean and all of them cause a CTD 
before hitting the main menu.

Just so this is clear: I restored to the original esms after testing each 
record group.

Original comment by jamesmin...@gmail.com on 22 Oct 2012 at 9:19

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago

The cleaned copy of BrokenSteel.esm works fine in-game by the way. Mind you I 
am not far enough in the MQ to test for actual bugs.

Original comment by jamesmin...@gmail.com on 22 Oct 2012 at 9:24

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago

The version of *Edit you sent me gave me the exact same results as post 4 above.

Original comment by jamesmin...@gmail.com on 22 Oct 2012 at 9:38

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago

Landscape bus still occurs with the new version.

Question for you: What is the purpose/significance of the -nofixup switch?The 
missing landscape bug only occurs when the switch is enabled, and only when I 
clean the worldspace record type ITMs.

Original comment by jamesmin...@gmail.com on 24 Oct 2012 at 2:19

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago

To help you understand your CTD issue with Zeta.esm after cleaning it, it is a 
ragdoll record that is getting corrupted. It's easy to fix so don't fret. The 
ragdoll record in question is DLC05AlienRagdoll (not exact but it's the alien 
one) does not have a RAFB subrecord. This alone doesn't cause problems, but 
when you save the file, FNVEdit will add that subrecord, causing the crash. To 
fix, go to the DATA section and change the Dynamic Bone count to 1. If left at 
0, the game and GECK will trip up when loading that Ragdoll record.

Original comment by harkness...@yahoo.com on 26 Oct 2012 at 12:13

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago

That worked perfectly, so thank you kindly. The ragdoll record in question was: 
DLC05Aliens

Original comment by jamesmin...@gmail.com on 26 Oct 2012 at 3:13

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago

So all I need is to tell FO3Edit to not add RAFB in ragdoll record?

Original comment by zila...@gmail.com on 26 Oct 2012 at 5:45

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago

Basically yes. It's a cheat Bethesda and in New Vegas (a lot) Obsidian used to 
get around their ragdoll setups.

Also, the bug keeping Broken Steel from saving I believe is an error involving 
Previous Info, it is referencing a non existent record in the file, which 
throws it for a loop. Simply run an error check on Broken Steel's Dialogue 
group to find the offending error and simply delete the PNAM in that INFO.

Original comment by harkness...@yahoo.com on 29 Oct 2012 at 12:09

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago

In 3.0.24 there will be no empty RAFB, and also disabled DIAL sorting to avoid 
that loop bug.
The only error left is reported disappearing landscape after cleaning some 
DLCs, I suspect that the error is similar to ragdoll and FO3Edit adds some 
empty subrecord somewhere (WRLD, LAND, CELL, etc).
As I don't have Fallout 3 I can't test it myself. If you can track that error 
too, that'll be great.

Original comment by zila...@gmail.com on 29 Oct 2012 at 12:16

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago

I've never experienced that before. I don't play Fallout 3, only play it 
through New Vegas with my personal merged setup. In my experience xEdit never 
has added any subrecords to LAND when they are missing.

Original comment by harkness...@yahoo.com on 29 Oct 2012 at 1:25

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago

Just tried a full ITM fix of Anchorage.esm with no visible effect on the 
landscape as far as I know.

Original comment by HuguesLe...@gmail.com on 31 Dec 2012 at 11:39

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago

Test cleaning 3.0.28 on Anchorage DLC
Finds 54 ITMs, when really there are only about 20.
Deletes world cells that aren't ITM, but have an empty temporary child group. 
The forms are native to Anchorage.esm
Deletes Empty internal cell Sub-Blocks
In both cases odd-ball structure.
I don't know if removal of the above is benign, but they aren't ITMs, and 
probably should be left alone. The forms are native to Anchorage.esm - that's 
the part that should cause some concern that records with actual content might 
be removed under certain conditions.
3.0.15 does the same thing and more - 60 ITM, so it's not a new bug, and .15 
additionally deletes NAVMs with only NVEX changes (fixed for .28) 

Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0100B30C] (in DLC02ChineseHQ 
"Chinese HQ" [WRLD:0100161B] at 11,14)
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0100B30A] (in DLC02ChineseHQ 
"Chinese HQ" [WRLD:0100161B] at 13,11)
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0100168B] (in DLC02ChineseHQ 
"Chinese HQ" [WRLD:0100161B] at 3,-4)
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:01001636] (in DLC02ChineseHQ 
"Chinese HQ" [WRLD:0100161B] at 4,-1)
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0100169B] (in DLC02ChineseHQ 
"Chinese HQ" [WRLD:0100161B] at -2,0)
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0100169A] (in DLC02ChineseHQ 
"Chinese HQ" [WRLD:0100161B] at -2,1)
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:01003E4F] (in 
DLC02AnchorageBattle "Anchorage" [WRLD:01000E28] at -9,-15)
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0100B16F] (in 
DLC02AnchorageBattle "Anchorage" [WRLD:01000E28] at 3,-10)
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:010092C1] (in 
DLC02AnchorageBattle "Anchorage" [WRLD:01000E28] at 6,-11)
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:01007441] (in 
DLC02AnchorageBattle "Anchorage" [WRLD:01000E28] at 4,-13)
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:01003E52] (in 
DLC02AnchorageBattle "Anchorage" [WRLD:01000E28] at 5,-13)
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:01003E4E] (in 
DLC02AnchorageBattle "Anchorage" [WRLD:01000E28] at 0,-18)
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0100791C] (in DLC02Overlook 
"Artillery Overlook" [WRLD:01000E27] at -2,-12)
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0100CD5B] (in DLC02Overlook 
"Artillery Overlook" [WRLD:01000E27] at -5,-17)
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:01007F3C] (in DLC02Overlook 
"Artillery Overlook" [WRLD:01000E27] at -25,1)
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0100CD5C] (in DLC02Overlook 
"Artillery Overlook" [WRLD:01000E27] at 7,-15)
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:01008910] (in DLC02Overlook 
"Artillery Overlook" [WRLD:01000E27] at 4,-12)
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0100851A] (in DLC02Overlook 
"Artillery Overlook" [WRLD:01000E27] at 8,12)
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:01008912] (in DLC02Overlook 
"Artillery Overlook" [WRLD:01000E27] at 6,15)
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0100CECA] (in DLC02Glacier 
"Anchorage Cliffs" [WRLD:01000BF2] at -5,-16)
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:01008D21] (in DLC02Glacier 
"Anchorage Cliffs" [WRLD:01000BF2] at -6,-16)
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:01008E47] (in DLC02Glacier 
"Anchorage Cliffs" [WRLD:01000BF2] at -6,16)
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0100CECB] (in DLC02Glacier 
"Anchorage Cliffs" [WRLD:01000BF2] at 9,-16)
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0100CEC3] (in DLC02Glacier 
"Anchorage Cliffs" [WRLD:01000BF2] at 12,-18)
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0100CECC] (in DLC02Glacier 
"Anchorage Cliffs" [WRLD:01000BF2] at 4,-14)
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0100CEC4] (in DLC02Glacier 
"Anchorage Cliffs" [WRLD:01000BF2] at 4,-16)
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:01008DED] (in DLC02Glacier 
"Anchorage Cliffs" [WRLD:01000BF2] at 12,2)
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:01003F80] (in 
DLC02BaileysCrossroads "Bailey's Crossroads" [WRLD:01000804] at 6,-12)
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:01003600] (in tLandscape 
"TestLandscape" [WRLD:00014BE2] at 5,4)
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:010035FF] (in tLandscape 
"TestLandscape" [WRLD:00014BE2] at 6,2)
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:010035FE] (in tLandscape 
"TestLandscape" [WRLD:00014BE2] at 6,5)
Removing: [NAVM:00070BEA] (for [CELL:00000DA1] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" 
[WRLD:0000003C] at 1,-16))
Removing: [LAND:00002860]
Removing: [REFR:000C3374] (places EnclavePosterHoriz01 [STAT:0004B213] in GRUP 
Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:00000DA0] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" 
[WRLD:0000003C] at 2,-16))
Removing: [REFR:000BD404] (places RoadChunkCluster02 [STAT:000317AF] in GRUP 
Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:00000DA0] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" 
[WRLD:0000003C] at 2,-16))
Removing: [REFR:000BD3E7] (places RoadChunk03 [STAT:000317A8] in GRUP Cell 
Temporary Children of [CELL:00000DA0] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] 
at 2,-16))
Removing: [REFR:0005E1BB] (places RWStraight01 [STAT:00039601] in GRUP Cell 
Temporary Children of [CELL:00000DA0] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] 
at 2,-16))
Removing: [REFR:0005E1B9] (places BLD06Corner01 [STAT:000009F1] in GRUP Cell 
Temporary Children of [CELL:00000DA0] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] 
at 2,-16))
Removing: [NAVM:000C94A0] (for FFRaiderCamp22 [CELL:00000D9F] (in Wasteland 
"Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at 3,-16))
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FFRaiderCamp22 [CELL:00000D9F] (in 
Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at 3,-16)
Removing: FFRaiderCamp22 [CELL:00000D9F] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" 
[WRLD:0000003C] at 3,-16)
Removing: [NAVM:000C94AD] (for [CELL:00000D81] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" 
[WRLD:0000003C] at 2,-15))
Removing: [LAND:00002841]
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:00000DC0] (in Wasteland 
"Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at 1,-17)
Removing: [CELL:00000DC0] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at 1,-17)
Removing: [NAVM:000C94F9] (for [CELL:00000DBF] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" 
[WRLD:0000003C] at 2,-17))
Removing: PowerAttack "PowerAttack" [DIAL:000000E6]
Removing: Yield "Yield" [DIAL:000000E1]
Removing: PLAYERJUMP "PLAYER JUMP" [DIAL:000000CE]
Removing: PLAYERLAYMINE "PLAYER LAY MINE" [DIAL:000000CC]
Removing: GRUP Interior Cell Sub-Block 8
Removing: GRUP Interior Cell Sub-Block 4
Removing: GRUP Interior Cell Sub-Block 9
Removing: GRUP Interior Cell Sub-Block 5
[Removing "Identical to Master" records done]  Processed Records: 43696, 
Removed Records: 54, Elapsed Time: 00:00

Original comment by rickerhk...@gmail.com on 15 Feb 2013 at 5:54

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago

All the removed CELLs are indeed ITM, just checked them manually.
"Temporary Children" and other similar GRUP records are removed because they 
are empty.
For me all the removals are correct, at least from the FO3Edit pov.

Original comment by zila...@gmail.com on 15 Feb 2013 at 7:07

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago

How can those cells be reported as ITM, when they don't even exist in the 
master (fallout3.esm)?
It just seems to me that the ITM removal process should not be deleting records 
that originate in the plugin being cleaned, under any circumstances, since by 
definition a ITM record originates from the plugin's master. Is there an easy 
way to block this from happening?

For example: the very first cell listed as deleted, [CELL:0100B30C] (in 
DLC02ChineseHQ "Chinese HQ" [WRLD:0100161B] at 11,14, has a huge mountain - 
DLCAnchMountain05 that covers it along with 24 other cells.

Original comment by rickerhk...@gmail.com on 15 Feb 2013 at 2:14

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago

It is not removed.
"GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0100B30C]" means an empty temporary GRUP 
record is deleted which is a child of that cell. The CELL record remains intact.

Original comment by zila...@gmail.com on 15 Feb 2013 at 2:47

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago

My bad.
Sorry :p

Original comment by rickerhk...@gmail.com on 15 Feb 2013 at 3:10

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago

I was able to clean all 5 DLCs for fallout3 and save them without errors. The 
game launches fine with a bunch of mods 
(Arwen/UFP/MMM/DCInteriors/Lings/ProjectBeauty/Alton/AWOP) and a merged patch. 
I'm currently playing through Zeta with no issues.

Original comment by rickerhk...@gmail.com on 17 Feb 2013 at 8:25

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago

Thanks

Original comment by HuguesLe...@gmail.com on 17 Feb 2013 at 8:37

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago

Original comment by HuguesLe...@gmail.com on 17 Feb 2013 at 8:37

Changed state: Fixed

raziel23x / skyrim-plugin-decoding-project

Issues/Observations when cleaning Fallout 3 DLCs #73