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RChain Bounty Program
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RHOC on Exchange #29

Closed lapin7 closed 6 years ago

lapin7 commented 7 years ago

RHOC is visible on infoproviders about exchanges:

RHOC on current exchanges:

RHOC needs to be on these exchanges:

lapin7 commented 6 years ago

Great work. As members we could set up a pool that collects the needed money and then the pool pays for the compliance fee(s).

-- Cheers, HJ

On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 6:20 AM, kitblake notifications@github.com wrote:

@Mervyn853 https://github.com/mervyn853 Bravo! We would very much like to be on Bittrex so (it's not my decision but) I think we'll make the compliance fee happen.

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patrick727 commented 6 years ago

Firm no on funding/supporting any type of listing.

Really important guys, the co-op is really supportive of a lot of activism, but this matter specifically is a must avoid. Hands tied.

Please don't continue to push further on ways the cooperative can, even indirectly, support this.

I am, personally uncomfortable with it even being an issue on github. It's been very clear this can only be an independent activity. There is no creative workaround.

RHOC is a coupon redeemable for REV, that's it.

@Mervyn853 If individuals or entities consider it "beneficial" enough then they will proceed autonomously. If you consider it to have that much value then its worth the sunk cost from you as an individual or as a group of individuals that are independent.

Sorry

lapin7 commented 6 years ago

Even coupons that are redeemable for REV have a certain value. The coop estimates the value at $0.20 and rewards workers using this rate.

We can ask in Greg's debrief if getting RHOC on poloniex or bittrex is an activity that's not allowed to be done by employees, directors and officers, but maybe it's allowed to be done by members or contractors.

-- Cheers, HJ

On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 4:11 PM, patrick727 notifications@github.com wrote:

Firm no on funding/supporting any type of listing.

Really important guys, the co-op is really supportive of a lot of activism, but this matter specifically is a must avoid. Hands tied.

Please don't continue to push further on ways the cooperative can, even indirectly, support this.

I am, personally uncomfortable with it even being an issue on github. It's been very clear this can only be an independent activity. There is no creative workaround.

RHOC is a coupon redeemable for REV, that's it.

@Mervyn853 https://github.com/mervyn853 If individuals or entities consider it "beneficial" enough then they will proceed autonomously. If you consider it to have that much value then its worth the sunk cost from you as an individual or as a group of individuals that are independent.

Sorry

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kitblake commented 6 years ago

Imho, don't ask. The coop cannot do anything that makes the RHOC look like a security.

There are dangerous rumblings, like an interview with the SEC chairman, that indicate he's thinking that ICOs are issuing securities, and should be subject to the same regulation.

We already have a go, as Members, to get RHOCs listed on additional exchanges. Let's leave it at that. (And make it happen.)

@patrick727 This convo is in the Members area of Github where all kinds of brainstorming happens.

Ojimadu commented 6 years ago

I think if there is a legal acquaintance who can advice on this before we proceed that would be better.

dckc commented 6 years ago

Last night I confirmed that the https://etherdelta.com/#RHOC-ETH smart contract exchange works as advertised.

patrick727 commented 6 years ago

@kitblake thank you

I'm still personally uncomfortable with this issue specifically. Is why I removed myself mostly from this convo.

derek7272 commented 6 years ago

I'm quite happy with the tokens being listed just on Ethedelta, as it's been an opportunity for me to accumulate quite a bit more. (Not sure who would be selling at this point??)

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 12:43 PM, Dan Connolly notifications@github.com wrote:

Last night I confirmed that the https://etherdelta.com/#RHOC-ETH smart contract exchange works as advertised.

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kemihu2011 commented 6 years ago

I'm still concerned as to whether or not the trading on Ether delta puts into question our project and token.

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 6:20 PM derek7272 notifications@github.com wrote:

I'm quite happy with the tokens being listed just on Ethedelta, as it's been an opportunity for me to accumulate quite a bit more. (Not sure who would be selling at this point??)

derek7272 commented 6 years ago

There's really nothing we can do about that now, so not worth worrying about. Investing in any crypto project comes with a lot of risks!

On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 2:37 PM, kemihu2011 notifications@github.com wrote:

I'm still concerned as to whether or not the trading on Ether delta puts into question our project and token.

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 6:20 PM derek7272 notifications@github.com wrote:

I'm quite happy with the tokens being listed just on Ethedelta, as it's been an opportunity for me to accumulate quite a bit more. (Not sure who would be selling at this point??)

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 12:43 PM, Dan Connolly <notifications@github.com

wrote:

Last night I confirmed that the https://etherdelta.com/#RHOC-ETH smart contract exchange works as advertised.

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.

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-- KEVIN HUYNH Partner | CryptoParency

+1 (650) 933-4107 <(650)%20933-4107>

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kemihu2011 commented 6 years ago

Well the coop better approve of rhoc to Rev translation of all those token holders. It better not revert back to just the addresses that contributed during the private sale.

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 7:58 PM derek7272 notifications@github.com wrote:

There's really nothing we can do about that now, so not worth worrying about. Investing in any crypto project comes with a lot of risks!

azreed1141 commented 6 years ago

Hello everyone,

Super noob here. My first ICO and I am wanting to send my RHOC tokens to Etherdelta to sell. I need help though. I have Meta Mask, when I get taken to my Etherscan account it shows me how many RHOC tokens I have. I have no idea how to send those tokens to an Etherdelta account though? PLEASE HELP!! THANKS!!

@kdvalentine

jimscarver commented 6 years ago

RHOCs are our property and trading them does not make them a security. The coop cannot prevent or control us trading them. However if the coop supports listing RHOCs on an exchange that clearly pegs it as a security under SEC guidelines.

There is no problem if individuals create a fund for listing rhoc on exchanges as long as the coop does not invest in the fund, however it may be best that neither employees or contractors do not participate in the process of managing the fund as that could be construed as an act of the coop. I would participate but since I have an SOW with the coop I may not be able to. If there is such a fund I could send my own ETH to it without implicating the coop. What is the cost of listing on bittrex?

@azreed1141 enter the number of rhos you want to deposit on etherdelta and click the blue deposit button.

lapin7 commented 6 years ago

@azreed1141 Hi, if you scroll up then you find an explanation of @kdvalentine Could you please send your email to ops@rchain.coop? Then you can participate in the collaboration and earn RHOC

ian-bloom commented 6 years ago

@lapin7 - Please remove this bounty. I'm closing this issue because it goes against what the other directors of the Cooperative, as well as counsel have advised regarding the classification of RHOC/REV as a security vs utility token. If you disagree, please take it up with the other directors before encouraging efforts in this direction.

kitblake commented 6 years ago

@drbloom, there's a governance overstep here. The Members have the right to do as they wish with their tokens. They can trade them, and if they wish they can get the RHOC listed on additional exchanges. The board cannot make a decree and forbid Members from such an effort. Only the Members can decide such a thing.

What the board can do – and is doing – is make it clear that the Co-op itself cannot support, financially or otherwise, efforts to get the RHOC listed on more exchanges. I agree that removing the long-running bounty from the rewards program would be prudent. So I just did (Members who disagree are welcome to argue with me).

This issue goes back to May 4th and contains a lot of valuable information, such as how to deal on various exchanges. It's also linked from media channels and the FAQ. Even if it's closed, the links will still work. So I'm reopening it with this comment to make it findable.

If the Members want to discuss aspects of RHOCs on exchanges, they have the right to do that here. This is the /Members forum.

dckc commented 6 years ago

Making it findable is not a good reason to re-open an issue. If you want it findable, @kitblakke, make links to it.

An open issue represents work to be done (even if just answering a question). As documented in CONTRIBUTING, an open issue in this repository represents work we intend to do, as part of the bounty program, sponsored by the co-op. So it's a contradiction to say that discussion here is not supported by the co-op.

Speaking of links to this issue and of other directors, the link to this issue from the the FAQ was approved by Ed Keyholt Aug 19 in https://github.com/rchain/reference/pull/7 and merged by him in 2fb0410. He was a director at the time, wasn't he, @drbloom? Remind me where the directors and counsel have spoken against work such as this? Let's get any inconsistencies cleared up.

dckc commented 6 years ago

Also, @kitblake , as to what rights members have, we agreed to give up some rights when we executed the membership agreement:

A. Acceptable Use Policy.

  1. Harmful Conduct. Member agrees not to act in such a way as to ... (c) be in violation of any law ...; or (h) perform any other act that is harmful or injurious to other Coop members.

A member who knowingly acts against advice of co-op council regarding legal issues and the value/status of RHOC would seem to run afoul of that policy.

ian-bloom commented 6 years ago

@kitblake, I agree that there is valuable information here, but links to closed GitHub issues work just fine. There is no governance overstep. Nobody is telling members what they can and can't do with their tokens. No decrees or prohibitions have been made. Closing an issue is not censorship.

The Co-op's board has made clear that it will not take action to list RHOC on exchanges. Now that HJ is on the board, we have the situation where a director is paying members to act against policy. I trust HJ to work this out. @lapin7

lapin7 commented 6 years ago

I will counsel our legal advisor, Evan.

-- Cheers, HJ

On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 4:45 PM, drbloom notifications@github.com wrote:

@kitblake https://github.com/kitblake, I agree that there is valuable information here, but links to closed GitHub issues work just fine. There is no governance overstep. Nobody is telling members what they can and can't do with their tokens. No decrees or prohibitions have been made. Closing an issue is not censorship.

The Co-op's board has made clear that it will not take action to list RHOC on exchanges. Now that HJ is on the board, we have the situation where a director is paying members to act against policy. I trust HJ to work this out. @lapin7 https://github.com/lapin7

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lapin7 commented 6 years ago

I close this issue #29 because of my organizational position. That doesn't stop somebody else from opening it in a new issue ;-)

kitblake commented 6 years ago

To follow up with @dckc: taking your commentary into account, in the Members meeting we made a consensual decision to close this issue.

Coincidentally, in the Debrief meeting that followed, the RHOCs on exchanges issue came up and Ed and Greg cleared up inconsistencies (and we still all agree that setting a bounty on the issue is a bad idea).

lapin7 commented 6 years ago

Issue #29 is closed. Until now no bounties have been paid for this issue. In November nothing will be paid for issue #29. So we are still clean on this :-)

-- Cheers, HJ

On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 8:04 PM, kitblake notifications@github.com wrote:

To follow up with @dckc https://github.com/dckc: taking your commentary into account, in the Members meeting we made a consensual decision to close this issue.

Coincidentally, in the Debrief meeting that followed, the RHOCs on exchanges issue came up and Ed and Greg cleared up inconsistencies (and we still all agree that setting a bounty on the issue is a bad idea).

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