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RChain Bounty Program
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Create an RChain Worldwide Community Forum Service #588

Open ghost opened 6 years ago

ghost commented 6 years ago

Last Update: 14/10/2018

Benefit to RChain

RChain Members will greatly benefit from the creation of a worldwide community forum.

On the worldwide community forum, we can share ideas, ask questions, talk about everything we care, things like governance and meetups and perhaps most importantly, get to know each other and grow as a community.

Specifically, the usage of Discourse will help in the creation of an archive of the conversations in the Markdown file format, which is a very versatile file format, in a sense that it allows for easy conversion to multiple other file formats and design styles.

Through the addition of plugins (from the official Disourse plugins repository) we can add very cool features, now and in the future. (these will be added progressively)

Furthermore and perhaps as important, the usage of the RChain Worldwide Community Forum will lower the barrier-to-entry for the majority of people and migrate conversations that should not take place on GitHub (which is a developer centric platform), to it.

Budget and Objective

Estimated Budget of Task: [April: $2500, May: $0, June: $2500, July: $3000, August: $1819] Estimated Timeline Required to Complete the Task: [200 days] How will we measure completion? [Have >=200 registered users on the forum.]

The objective is described above in the Benefit to RChain section.

Legal

Task Submitter shall not submit Tasks that will involve RHOC being transacted in any manner that (i) jeopardizes RHOC’s status as a software access token or other relevant and applicable description of the RHOC as an “asset”—not a security— or (2) violates, in any manner, applicable U.S. Securities laws.

Notes

Tasks (Alpha Phase)

Tasks (Beta Phase)

Tasks (Final Phase - Release Candidate)

IOU

Members contributions are tagged accordingly.

ghost commented 6 years ago

@dckc

@pmoorman said "much of the value of a forum is in the users, rather than in the software." There was considerable support for this view in the TAG+guides meeting July 26 (#847)

@pmoorman also said:

Going along with @jimscarver comment above, I've voted $500 until it's clearer how the higher budget is justified. I also agree that we shouldn't pay for work that's still to be delivered.

If more work needs to be done in July, let's pay for it in July.

@ICA3DaR5 I think the main problem here is that from your comments it's hard to understand where all this time/money went, and how it's justified. If you can explain better, the higher budgets might be perfectly justified.

To be crystal clear: what would address my concerns is if you edit the objective in the issue description to show a measurable plan for actual users.

Currently forum.rchain.coop has a total of 155 users, so I'll put 200 users as a goal in order to address your concern.

dckc commented 6 years ago

I'm voting $200 for budget because a large portion of the $8000 should be reserved for when the goal of 200 users is achieved.

@jimscarver I see you voted a large positive number, presumably to offset my large negative vote. That only makes my job more difficult. Please don't do that.

jimscarver commented 6 years ago

The majority here feels the the forum is worthwhile and the case made. There was general consent in the meeting that negative votes should not be allowed. My countervote effectively resulted in a vote of zero for the two of us. Please do not vote negative in the future. One person is not a god here you ought not be unilaterally allow to stop a bounty without concurrence of other guides.

dckc commented 6 years ago

I did have concurrence of at least 3 other guides. I would rather not vote negative, but our repeated requests were dismissed. That's just not acceptable. It's OK to disagree in a way that invites continued discussion, but if I'm dismissed, it forces my hand.

ghost commented 6 years ago

RChain Worldwide Community Forum Zoom Meeting

7ad494c18eae165f60d33c0dcd305608fc996da6

An online meeting using Zoom regarding the RChain Worldwide Community Forum (rchain/bounties GitHub issue #588).

The meetings are going to be held every Friday at 20:00 (Greece, UTC +3). This is the same exact time as the RChain Active Members meeting, except it's on Fridays. :smiley:

Links

ghost commented 6 years ago

Introduction of Donald A. Iljazi (ICA3DaR5)

Greetings to the RChain Cooperative community.

I would like to introduce myself to the community in order for you to get to know me, my background and the tools of trade I use to do my work. You can do the same at the Introductions category of your language of choice, which is located at https://rchaincommunity.xyz/. For example if your language of choice is English you could do it at https://rchaincommunity.xyz/c/English/Introductions.

allancto commented 6 years ago

@ICA3DaR5 you've hit the nail on the head. Great content will make great readership and community involvement. Nice!!! -@allancto

ghost commented 6 years ago

@allancto Thanks!!! :)

tucsonblockchain commented 6 years ago

https://rchaincommunity.xyz/t/about-the-meetups-category/88 This is the Meetups Category (English) and it is an awesome feature, one that offers many benefits to Rchain for Meetups. My question is do you think this feature should be opened up for other blockchain communities (even if on trial / or alliance basis) for purpose of their meetups? Or do you think this would fractionalize the Rchain community by opening it up? I think it should be considered even to the extent that it could positively cross pollinate Rchain, even with membership sign up for those that seek to use this great feature, so that could quantitatively be measured with potential sign ups, not saying that it would, but it may. $20 membership may be a great thank you or a new member altogether. Also there could be a feature (if other blockchains or alliances were allowed to use this feature) that they could "tip" say BTC, ETH, or even a whole matrix of other cryptos (consider the payment processors that exist with many cryptos) and that could go directly to Rchain. It could have network affect. It could increase traffic, but this community would need to decide. I would see benefit, not fractionalization, but I would also think trial or a limit should be considered to avoid potential problems or abuse. What do you think? This is a big reason why I ask:

Basic Starts at $9.99/month
50 members 4 organizers Unlimited Starts at $14.99/month Unlimited members Unlimited organizers Reference: https://www.meetup.com/pricing/

tucsonblockchain commented 6 years ago

http://bitcoinmacroeconomics.com/2018/08/18/rchaincommunity-xyz-sign-now-forum-rocks/

tucsonblockchain commented 6 years ago

https://medium.com/@tucsonblockchain/rchaincommunity-xyz-sign-up-now-this-forum-rocks-92984b9d114

tucsonblockchain commented 6 years ago

https://bitcoingarden.org/forum/index.php?topic=44429.new#

tucsonblockchain commented 6 years ago

https://www.minds.com/newsfeed/877784913364426752

azazime commented 6 years ago

@ICA3DaR5 nice to have put this together, its time to engage members over there at the forum...

Valentine-Mario commented 6 years ago

I put up a small video on how to use the forum here

ghost commented 6 years ago

@Valentine-Mario I uploaded the video on YouTube as well: https://youtu.be/JyITmbhAGaM

ghost commented 6 years ago
jimscarver commented 6 years ago

The forum is very well organized and loaded with lots of capabilities including voting meetup planning. It is well done. If it is promoted well it could be highly successful. I suggest posting links to specific articles in relevant social media channel to bring people in.

ghost commented 6 years ago

@jimscarver The plan for September is to focus on marketing efforts.

dckc commented 6 years ago

@ICA3DaR5 I see you resigned from the bounty system effective September 5. I'm sorry to see you go.

anyone who wants to continue the development, marketing efforts PM me in the next 4 days.

Did anything become of that? Is the succession plan clear yet?

tucsonblockchain commented 6 years ago

@ICA3DaR5 put a lot of hard work into the RchainCommunity.xyz and it's an awesome site. Far better than most forums in my opinion. I tried to vote for this project and then all said and done I was unable to vote for it because I don't have the trust rating. Maybe I am just plain old fashioned anti establishment but there are so many inherent flaws in this system that it's no wonder people will continue to drop like flies unless this process is scrapped in it's entirety. Restore the power to the people. Whatever is going on is backwards.

ghost commented 6 years ago

@ICA3DaR5 Did anything become of that? Is the succession plan clear yet?

There is @pavlos1851 as an admin in case I no longer exist. The server is backed up weekly and Discourse backs up everything (settings, posts etc.) daily.

I am going to take a few days off and then decide (once I relax a bit, anxiety issues :slightly_smiling_face: ).

dckc commented 6 years ago

@tucsonblockchain writes:

... there are so many inherent flaws in this system ...

I grow weary of your complaints. If you have something constructive to add, please do. If the flaws are inherent, then the system is doomed. Why waste your breath commenting? Why not move on to more worthy pursuits?

... I was unable to vote for it because I don't have the trust rating.

Lack of a trust rating (a) doesn't prevent you from voting and (b) is within your power to fix. Complaining isn't likely to help.

tucsonblockchain commented 6 years ago

Grow weary, the system is ripe with flaws and someone needs to hear it. If the general public cannot even figure out how to vote, and people are dropping out as seen, then it's worth the breath. But if you enjoy the current system grow weary of the complaints. We have offered solutions. 1) Delegate - we appointed Andrew B) We offered a review board - Result, was prompt pay. We aren't complaining we are taking action! And if you can't handle the heat because of the inherent flaws, perhaps you should consider our solutions. I think an overwhelming majority can determine that the entire system needs an overhaul. I'm just pointing to the end result, including the guy that built the awesome forum, that you complained about but he apparently is moving on. Some others including myself may as well. Can't say we didn't take action or bring it up before the end result which is obvious. I also want to remind you that I am a paying member and for that reason alone have every right to say what I wish about a flawed system I wish I had known about before I paid the $20.

dckc commented 6 years ago

... the system is ripe with flaws and someone needs to hear it.

Has anyone denied the system has many flaws? Who is it that needs to hear it? I experience it all the time, as do many others. I acknowledge the flaws regularly.

1) Delegate B) We offered a review board

How are those relevant to this issue?

I think an overwhelming majority can determine that the entire system needs an overhaul.

So? So what? I agree that it could get much, much better. But just saying "it needs an overhaul" is just complaining.

I also want to remind you that I am a paying member ...

Read the bylaws. The $20 entitles you to vote in annual meetings. That's all. It doesn't entitle you to a bounty system that works as well as systems developed by dozens of full-time developers. We're just your peers, putting in evenings and weekends, cobbling something together.

tucsonblockchain commented 6 years ago

Looks like you want to start an argument or got thin skin. If you are cobbling into the wee hours of the weekends and evenings you are building a giant turd. I don't really care about the bylaws.

dckc commented 6 years ago

Yes, what we've built so far could fairly be described that way. But pointing it out is just complaining. Tearing down is easy.

ysgjay commented 6 years ago

"How will we measure completion? [Have >=200 registered users on the forum.]"

How many are currently registered? I am seeing little to no interaction in this forum. Going forward I would like to see demand assessed prior to beginning work. 200 co-op members should have been pre-registered before breaking ground on a new communication outlet

tucsonblockchain commented 6 years ago

How many are actively using Discord? I would say a base could be arrived at. While there may be some activity there, as it was a requirement of membership, I would say participation is relatively flat, and you have a good point of quantifying, but it's a new forum that just got released. You bring up a good point of going forward, but what about work that has already been done? It's an awesome forum. A good way to quantify results overall is to ask what happens to the creator going forward, or other participants, and then ask yourself why or where did they go? It may be disheartening for creators to work within this realm, let alone garnish support from promoters given specific mechanisms that you bring, but at current state, why would anybody build something subject to vote after the fact? I'd halt all work as well if that were the way of the world. But going forward quantifiable results are a good thing, but perhaps use Discord as a gauge and maybe make it mandatory to join RchainCommunity.xyz if one is going to compare to Discord, for example. I'd be more interested what happened to the creator and why, because that too could be quantified over time, and the results will speak for themselves. What is the hassle factor? What is the end result? And are people and workers for any matter risk adverse if they stand a chance of being voted down or worse, people don't vote, or I've even seen negative votes for work. How do you measure that vs measurable results? Quantifiable results can work both ways.

ysgjay commented 6 years ago

@tucsonblockchain If we have Discord, where everyone already resides, why don't we take advantage of that and improve it, rather than creating ANOTHER outlet.

From the outside it looks like we are creating something few people are asking for, after that bounty budget runs out, we make another bounty for another initiative with little community support.

Why do I currently despise these initiatives? They are for the sole purpose of making an over-budgeted bounty to make money. There is little to no outreach, and promotion of these projects because that is not what makes bounty hunters money.

I will continue to play the bad guy on issues like this because I feel it needs to be done. The number one complaint I see is the confusion of finding information, adding these outlets does not help.

tucsonblockchain commented 6 years ago

Freedom of choice. I prefer RchainCommunity.xyz over Discord. Discord seeems fractionalizing in and of itself. Too many servers. But that's just my perspective. I prefer a forum style vs discord. Too many features the creator put into it that blow Discord away, and he should be rewarded and commended for excellence. I hear what you are saying, esp "going forward" but it seems this creator was encouraged and did a lot of displaying of features, all of which were appreciated and again encouraged. It seems a shame to discourage someone like that after the fact. I did some outreach in full support, I posted on my website, on BitcoinGarden, on other social media, because I supported the initiative and thought it was an awesome forum. When it came to a "vote" I spent a half hour trying only to realize I could not vote on it, further discouraging me in the overall process, including wasting time on the entire process. That's my take away, that this is insane. I can't speak for anybody else, but I do realize the creator isn't overly active at the moment on this project. And I appreciate you playing the bad guy on the issue, because being critical and offering response and feedback is important. I do it because other's may not want to hear it. But they need to hear it, so keep up being the bad guy.

ghost commented 6 years ago

@jplepel

How many are currently registered? I am seeing little to no interaction in this forum. Going forward I would like to see demand assessed prior to beginning work. 200 co-op members should have been pre-registered before breaking ground on a new communication outlet.

43 Users are currently registered. Consider the fact that the development was completed on August 31.

I am actively marketing the forum on various other forums/places in Greece and globally.

image

@tucsonblockchain If we have Discord, where everyone already resides, why don't we take advantage of that and improve it, rather than creating ANOTHER outlet.

How can you improve Discord? It's not a self-hosted system, you can't do much with it.

Discord - Free Voice and Text Chat for Gamers

A text chat software is very different from a forum. A forum is very much like email threads that you can continue communication asynchronously even after weeks - months. Try doing that on Discord with a waterfall of text messages.

dckc commented 6 years ago

@tucsonblockchain writes:

... why would anybody build something subject to vote after the fact?

They didn't have to. Anybody who starts work before coordinating with guides to be sure the budget is supported by the relevant parts of the coop does so at their own risk.

@jplepel writes:

... They are for the sole purpose of making an over-budgeted bounty to make money. ...

Did those seeking a reward tell you this was their motive? If not, how do you know for certain? If you don't know for certain, you are out of line. You are free to criticize and disagree, but impugning motives is out of line.

ysgjay commented 6 years ago

@dckc Fair, my comment is a bit out of line. I do not know for certain. The lack of follow up marketing and awareness of the products being created leads me to assume participation is not part of the scope. The way I look at a lot of the translations and this forum is that the effort goes away after the product is delivered and the bounty is paid.

I'm a numbers guy, so I see products delivered, followed by poor metrics and outreach. After making a forum, the next logical step is getting people using it. Instead, I see another attempt at a media outlet (blog) with a bounty to keep the lights on. It's cyclical.

I could be way out of line. I've heard enough people talk poorly about specific bounties and I'm going to speak up. Not looking to take down the program, just think this love for RChain could be harnessed in a better way.

ghost commented 6 years ago

Just an update: