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rcmaehl / WhyNotWin11

Detection Script to help identify why your PC is not Windows 11 Release Ready. Now Supporting Update Checks!
https://whynotwin11.org
GNU Lesser General Public License v3.0
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CPU Compatibility List Discussion #33

Closed seiggy closed 3 years ago

seiggy commented 3 years ago

The CPU Compatibility list is coming from the Systems Integrator page, not an actual requirement for Windows 11 support. See the same page for Windows 10 - https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/windows-processor-requirements Notice how there's a lot of missing CPUs that install Windows 10 just fine? Don't equate Systems Integrator requirements with OS requirements. These are ONLY to receive the "Windows Genuine Badge" for systems integrators - https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/supported/windows-11-supported-intel-processors

Ok, this is getting crazy now...story is changing constantly from MS camp. Best to wait?

micwoj92 commented 3 years ago

Your*

htcfreek commented 3 years ago

@seiggy This is not correct. The list is linked from the official hardware requirements on docs.microsoft.com.

~Where do you read that the list is only for getting the badge?~

MS itself links to the list on docs.microsoft from the official Win11 announcement website.

seiggy commented 3 years ago

Literally the first line on the page of the first link

image

htcfreek commented 3 years ago

Literally the first line on the page of the first link

image

See my last post which is updated. An this line you mentioned says that system with the listed processor can run Win11.

seiggy commented 3 years ago

This is the official requirements for non-Systems Integrators https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/whats-new/windows-11-requirements

seiggy commented 3 years ago

Even the "Health Check App" released by MS will report that an 7th gen CPU with PTT, Secure Boot and UEFI turned on is fine to upgrade.

Masamune3210 commented 3 years ago

Microsoft is releasing a post soon about all the confusion involving the requirements, so would probably just wait until then instead of arguing about specifics.

seiggy commented 3 years ago

Microsoft is releasing a post soon about all the confusion involving the requirements, so would probably just wait until then instead of arguing about specifics.

Absolutely. Agreed.

dev-sda1 commented 3 years ago

It's likely using the same sources that the PC health app is using. Doesn't make sense as to why the PC health app is using them if the list is only for OEM but we'll have to wait and see if MS can repair the hellshow that's been unleashed because of their poor communication

seiggy commented 3 years ago

Yeah, they've totally screwed the messaging on this. All the docs have now been updated in the last hour or so to remove all the soft limit specs they had listed before. They really need to get a handle on this, as the messaging is seriously confusing now. Initial requirements were TPM 1.2+, UEFI, 64bit dual core CPU. Now suddenly that's not going to work?

Right now I think ZDNet has the best details around wtf is going on - https://www.zdnet.com/article/will-your-pc-run-windows-11-even-microsoft-cant-say-for-sure/

dev-sda1 commented 3 years ago

Microsoft's own Director of OS Security isn't having a great time on Twitter either. One tweet saying skylake-gen processors are supported only to then say in a reply that the 7th gen is below the requirements and that 8th gen+ is what's supported(???) and then tries to go back on the main tweet reply entirely. Really not a great start for Windows as this has completely eclipsed any discussion of the OS itself.

rcmaehl commented 3 years ago

This will not change until I see an official report that Microsoft has changed their notably stupid stance and updates https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/windows-processor-requirements. Thankfully, I have set the CPU lists to be easily updatable without having to update the application itself once they do.

djohannes commented 3 years ago

Even the "Health Check App" released by MS will report that an 7th gen CPU with PTT, Secure Boot and UEFI turned on is fine to upgrade.

I have a 7th gen CPU with a true TPM chip, Secure Boot and UEFI turned on and the app reports it's not fine to upgrade.

htcfreek commented 3 years ago

Even the "Health Check App" released by MS will report that an 7th gen CPU with PTT, Secure Boot and UEFI turned on is fine to upgrade.

I have a 7th gen CPU with a true TPM chip, Secure Boot and UEFI turned on and the app reports it's not fine to upgrade.

WhyNotWin11 or PCHealthCheck from Microsoft?

djohannes commented 3 years ago

Even the "Health Check App" released by MS will report that an 7th gen CPU with PTT, Secure Boot and UEFI turned on is fine to upgrade.

I have a 7th gen CPU with a true TPM chip, Secure Boot and UEFI turned on and the app reports it's not fine to upgrade.

WhyNotWin11 or PCHealthCheck from Microsoft?

PCHealthCheck by MS, in the "WhyNotWin11" app is everything green except the CPU.

htcfreek commented 3 years ago

Even the "Health Check App" released by MS will report that an 7th gen CPU with PTT, Secure Boot and UEFI turned on is fine to upgrade.

I have a 7th gen CPU with a true TPM chip, Secure Boot and UEFI turned on and the app reports it's not fine to upgrade.

WhyNotWin11 or PCHealthCheck from Microsoft?

PCHealthCheck by MS, in the "WhyNotWin11" app is everything green except the CPU.

So the results of both apps are corect

djohannes commented 3 years ago

So the results of both apps are corect

Correct, just mentioned it because some people say even with a 7th gen CPU the MS app reports the upgrade will work.

AGuyNamedJens commented 3 years ago

Even the "Health Check App" released by MS will report that an 7th gen CPU with PTT, Secure Boot and UEFI turned on is fine to upgrade.

I have a 7th gen CPU with a true TPM chip, Secure Boot and UEFI turned on and the app reports it's not fine to upgrade.

WhyNotWin11 or PCHealthCheck from Microsoft?

PCHealthCheck by MS, in the "WhyNotWin11" app is everything green except the CPU.

Same for me, I have a AMD Ryzen 5 1400 Quad Core, works perfectly fine, yet it's not in the list and get the same error on WhyNotWin11, as well as not supported on the pc health check, the rest is green -.-

seiggy commented 3 years ago

Even the "Health Check App" released by MS will report that an 7th gen CPU with PTT, Secure Boot and UEFI turned on is fine to upgrade.

I have a 7th gen CPU with a true TPM chip, Secure Boot and UEFI turned on and the app reports it's not fine to upgrade.

WhyNotWin11 or PCHealthCheck from Microsoft?

PCHealthCheck by MS, in the "WhyNotWin11" app is everything green except the CPU.

Same for me, I have a AMD Ryzen 5 1400 Quad Core, works perfectly fine, yet it's not in the list and get the same error on WhyNotWin11, as well as not supported on the pc health check, the rest is green -.-

The issue is that they're sharing the Hardware Developer documentation as the supported CPU list. Which has never been the full list of CPU's supported by the OS for upgrades / enthusiast builds. Only for System Integrators. So it's seriously a massive misstep by whoever is handling the messaging right now. For example, check out the list of "Supported CPUs" for Windows 10 21H1 - https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/supported/windows-10-21h1-supported-intel-processors notice the fact that Intel 5th Gen and previous are all missing, though they all work fine with 21H1 and are eve listed as supported by Intel - https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000006105/processors.html

So I'd seriously expect their messaging to change early next week as communication within MS figures out they've published the wrong support list.

AGuyNamedJens commented 3 years ago

Even the "Health Check App" released by MS will report that an 7th gen CPU with PTT, Secure Boot and UEFI turned on is fine to upgrade.

I have a 7th gen CPU with a true TPM chip, Secure Boot and UEFI turned on and the app reports it's not fine to upgrade.

WhyNotWin11 or PCHealthCheck from Microsoft?

PCHealthCheck by MS, in the "WhyNotWin11" app is everything green except the CPU.

Same for me, I have a AMD Ryzen 5 1400 Quad Core, works perfectly fine, yet it's not in the list and get the same error on WhyNotWin11, as well as not supported on the pc health check, the rest is green -.-

The issue is that they're sharing the Hardware Developer documentation as the supported CPU list. Which has never been the full list of CPU's supported by the OS for upgrades / enthusiast builds. Only for System Integrators. So it's seriously a massive misstep by whoever is handling the messaging right now. For example, check out the list of "Supported CPUs" for Windows 10 21H1 - https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/supported/windows-10-21h1-supported-intel-processors notice the fact that Intel 5th Gen and previous are all missing, though they all work fine with 21H1 and are eve listed as supported by Intel - https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000006105/processors.html

So I'd seriously expect their messaging to change early next week as communication within MS figures out they've published the wrong support list.

I honestly hope so lmao this is actual bullshit honestly, You see how they're adding more support to get a raspberry pi and small devices like it to run windows correctly? Yeah.. and a Ryzen 5 1400 quad core appearently wouldn't be supported while a tiny CPU of a pi will.. lol

Masamune3210 commented 3 years ago

There is a theory that the strict cpu req's are to try to remove support for any cpu that is completely vulnerable to Specter or Meltdown. Also Windows on ARM is still as far as I know not officially licensed for users to put on whatever they want unless they changed it recently, hence open source projects to get it booting and drivers on stuff like the Pi 4

seiggy commented 3 years ago

There is a theory that the strict cpu req's are to try to remove support for any cpu that is completely vulnerable to Specter or Meltdown. Also Windows on ARM is still as far as I know not officially licensed for users to put on whatever they want unless they changed it recently, hence open source projects to get it booting and drivers on stuff like the Pi 4

Problem with that theory is that the 8th gens are still impacted by Specter and still need the software patch. And there's newer much worse performance impacting vulnerabilities even in the 9th gen (see ZombieLoad patch performance metrics). So I'd take this theory with a giant grain of salt.

AGuyNamedJens commented 3 years ago

There is a theory that the strict cpu req's are to try to remove support for any cpu that is completely vulnerable to Specter or Meltdown. Also Windows on ARM is still as far as I know not officially licensed for users to put on whatever they want unless they changed it recently, hence open source projects to get it booting and drivers on stuff like the Pi 4

According to this site, which has pretty useful posts now and then -> https://www.xda-developers.com/windows-11/#Windows11x64Emulation It should be supported in the future on Windows 11, I still don't get why my CPU would be vulnerable, because honestly most gamers with CPUs like mine, they're not dumb to install such vulnerabilities in programs and stuff..

micwoj92 commented 3 years ago

because honestly most gamers with CPUs like mine, they're not dumb to install such vulnerabilities in programs and stuff..

I don't see how owning AMD Ryzen 5 1400 would make someone smart. Seeing what some anti cheat software (or any shady software) does with pc (and these gamers still install it) I have to say that your "theory" is false.

AGuyNamedJens commented 3 years ago

because honestly most gamers with CPUs like mine, they're not dumb to install such vulnerabilities in programs and stuff..

I don't see how owning AMD Ryzen 5 1400 would make someone smart. Seeing what some anti cheat software (or any shady software) does with pc (and these gamers still install it) I have to say that your "theory" is false.

Well it's still unfair that i would be basically forced to upgrade my CPU just to get windows 11.. which is a shame then

Masamune3210 commented 3 years ago

What's even worse is I almost guarantee that this is a purely on install check, and that manually applying the install image using DISM will work just fine

martinsuchan commented 3 years ago

I got Surface Go 2 with Pentium Gold 4425Y. This CPU is quite strange - it's listed in Windows 11 list as supported, but it's actually 7th gen Pentium Kaby Lake CPU. Note the WhyNotWin11 app 2.1.0.0 reports for this CPU "?" on the CPU generation line, I guess this can be fixed?

Masamune3210 commented 3 years ago

Go make a issue about it so it can properly be looked at, but I would wait a bit since I think a new build is about to come out soon

micwoj92 commented 3 years ago

because honestly most gamers with CPUs like mine, they're not dumb to install such vulnerabilities in programs and stuff..

I don't see how owning AMD Ryzen 5 1400 would make someone smart. Seeing what some anti cheat software (or any shady software) does with pc (and these gamers still install it) I have to say that your "theory" is false.

Well it's still unfair that i would be basically forced to upgrade my CPU just to get windows 11.. which is a shame then

I just ran leaked win11 dev build in VM with unsupported cpu (athlon x4 845) and with 1gb ram (but it was terribly slow) so these requirements are for "certification for oems" I would say.

Masamune3210 commented 3 years ago

Well just because it ran doesnt mean that the requirement is only for OEM's. Requirements for Windows hardware wise has never been really strictly enforced, see the litany of videos on youtube about installing various versions of Windows in weird ways or on weird hardware configs

dev-sda1 commented 3 years ago

so these requirements are for "certification for oems" I would say.

If they were for OEMs why are DIY machines being held up to this bizzare CPU whitelist standard on the PC Health app and the documentation on MS' website?

micwoj92 commented 3 years ago

so these requirements are for "certification for oems" I would say.

If they were for OEMs why are DIY machines being held up to this bizzare CPU whitelist standard on the PC Health app and the documentation on MS' website?

Look at previous comment "Requirements for Windows hardware wise has never been really strictly enforced, see the litany of videos on youtube about installing various versions of Windows in weird ways or on weird hardware configs"

Masamune3210 commented 3 years ago

All the recommended specs apply to really is OEM's and Windows automatically upgrading once it comes out. Not much is going to stop someone from installing it on whatever hardware they want short of critical components like the kernal doing the check itself. Right now, the only thing that really does any hardware checks is the Installer and the HAL and its mostly just to make sure you can actually boot correctly

gjsman commented 3 years ago

Wrong, Microsoft's Vice President of Product Management has said:

"The supported Windows 11 CPU list I posted applies to both new and upgraded systems." https://twitter.com/dispensa/status/1408573147285135366

And when asked the following question: "Does this mean if a chip, like the 7700k has TPM 2.0 but is not on your list, will not be able to upgrade to Windows 11?"

He responded with: "Yeah, Windows 11 is only supported on the CPU list I posted above. There are more requirements than just TPM 2.0 support (and all supported chipsets should have TPM 2.0, so that's not generally a blocking requirement)." https://twitter.com/dispensa/status/1408580116393848839

AGuyNamedJens commented 3 years ago

Wtf "only supported on the list" so I'm like a LOT of users completely fucked pure by having either a new CPU like the newest intel 10th gen or a 2 year old amd cpu.. wtf

dev-sda1 commented 3 years ago

They are going to completely ruin their market share if they actually push on with this in the final release. Vista but even worse as Windows 10 only has 4 years left unlike XP which had another decade at best

AGuyNamedJens commented 3 years ago

I wonder what the difference even does with TPM, Secure Boot, not having a cpu thats on the list etc, people are reporting nothing changed on their leaked windows 11 ISO.. Just look at how a intel 4th gen which isnt on the windows 10 supported list still works perfectly fine..

dev-sda1 commented 3 years ago

When you run it in a virtual machine (like a Linux KVM) Windows bypasses all the checks that otherwise would be in place. Essentially admitting that none of these "requirements" are necessary. I can run the leaked ISO in a vm just fine and didn't flag any issues in the settings app signing up to the Insider Preview. There's definitely something dodgy going on behind the scenes. imo I smell a lawsuit similar to apple's constant ones with planned obsolescence

AGuyNamedJens commented 3 years ago

I'm not talking about the VM, I'm talking about the actual OS, on an actual hard drive

gjsman commented 3 years ago

Microsoft said that, because they are so gracious, during the testing and development phase the added requirements won't be enforced and anyone can try it, but upon release the requirements will be enforced and anyone with the last testing build on their PC will be forced to wipe their PCs and reinstall Windows 10.

AGuyNamedJens commented 3 years ago

@gjsman if they do I'm def going to linux, no games for me i guess but honestly fuck that

gjsman commented 3 years ago

You can read all about that here: https://blogs.windows.com/windows-insider/2021/06/24/preparing-for-insider-preview-builds-of-windows-11/

While we recommend that all PCs meet the full hardware requirements for Windows 11, we are allowing some limited exceptions as we apply these new restrictions. All Windows Insiders who have already been installing builds from the Dev Channel on their PCs up through June 24, 2021 will be allowed to continue installing Windows 11 Insider Preview builds even if their PC does not meet the minimum hardware requirements. Insiders with PCs already in the Dev Channel have been installing and giving feedback on builds with Windows 11 features since last year. Our way of saying thanks is to go ahead and give them the opportunity to see everything come together. However, this comes with some important tradeoffs we want to call attention to:

dev-sda1 commented 3 years ago

The insider preview check at release won't apply to virtual machines. So technically I can run production Windows 11 if for some reason they keep the stupid requirements on Skylake through one lmao

micwoj92 commented 3 years ago

@gjsman if they do I'm def going to linux, no games for me i guess but honestly fuck that

I love you :heart_eyes_cat:

EdgarGc026 commented 3 years ago

I can't update to windows 11, because my CPU's to 7th gen ._.XD image

ringtailedfox commented 3 years ago

I can't update to windows 11, because my CPU's to 7yh gen ._.XD image

same here, but with an i7-7700HQ.... everything else passes quite easily. guess I'm staying on Windows 10, then moving to Linux once support runs out if microsoft is stupid and stubborn enough to do this...

Okwizi commented 3 years ago

@ringtailedfox , Adding to the referenced Microsoft document, your CPU (as at the moment) won't support Windows 11 according to the Microsoft document (which happened to be updated as soon as the official checker was also updated.) Before the update on the document however, it stated that PCs with older CPUs could upgrade but it wasn't "recommended". Your CPU came out at 2015 which is considered old but doesn't not necessarily mean you can't run Windows 11. Most CPUs that pass the check are >7th Generation. I use a i5-6300U CPU and it didn't pass either the check in this thread nor the official one at Microsoft. I have seen You Tube videos where people install the Win 11 Build version on older machines and works fine. The scenario is similar to a prompt error that warns you not to root your phone but you go ahead and root it anyway.

gjsman commented 3 years ago

@Okwizi Doesn't matter, Microsoft actually said in their blog post that the requirements for Windows 11 won't be effectively enforced until the Release To Manufacturing. Your ability to install Windows 11 today from a leaked build or an Insider build, according to Microsoft, doesn't matter compared to the final.

djjstew commented 3 years ago

WhyNotWin11 reports that I don't have DirectX 12 but in fact according to dxdiag I do? Anyway....

Fail because 6th gen i7. Dell computer will be 4 years old when Win 11 gets released ftw. I have seen nothing announced about Win 11 that would make me want to spend $'s to upgrade my desktop - it works great for what I do at home. My work laptop is eligible so I guess in theory I could buy a really nice monitor for at home use.

So here is the thing MSFT. If I do want to upgrade my home rig you just gave me a reason to look at Apple - not along ago I would not have even thought this. But recently for work reasons (company is Apple centric) I have an iPhone (android for personal use), Apple watch, iPad pro (no Android gadget comes close) so why not on the desktop? In fact, for the things, I do at home why not a Chromebook? Linux?

Why would you piss off 1,000's if not 1MM's of loyal customers who would likely be ready to upgrade their rig in the next few years anyway? BTW I'm not sure pissed off is correct since I did state earlier that I have seen nothing about Win 11 that is a game changer......

Masamune3210 commented 3 years ago

I love how people are throwing so much fire at Microsoft for doing this and talking about switching to Apple, when Apple has been doing this shiz since the dawn of freaking time lol. There is even a tool specifically designed to get newer versions of macOS to run on older hardware that isn't in the compat list but works fine just because apple didn't want to support the hardware anymore

Is it a dumb idea and should Microsoft be getting hell for it? Yes But don't act like Apple is any different, they arent