Accurate priceguide - Githubissues

TeupFleup commented 3 years ago

Hi guys, I haven't been following any of these developments to be honest, but was invited by Stellar to share an issue with BrickStock that I've been posting about for some time, and that I consider to be very important as it affects the "lego economy".

BrickStock's priceguide prices do not match Bricklink's. We believe this is due to the fact it assumes everyone is in the US. That means:

VAT is excluded
the currency is converted

The latter is no problem for current average prices: you can simply convert them back. But for the sold average (last 6 months sales), this is not possible, because the exchange rates of the date of purchase are used. So, someone may buy in Euro, it gets converted to USD with the exchange rate of that day for the US priceguide, and then in BrickStock a European user converts it back with today's exchange rate, resulting in skewing. And as for the VAT exclusion, well, it's easy to see how that structurally makes prices appear lower than they really are, contributing to the "race to the bottom". People price things at what they think is average, but it's strucutrally slightly below that.

See also what I posted here for a longer explanation: https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1245050

I know that the API provides several parameters that should be able to take care of this. So if Brickstore uses the same API, then it should be easy to either translate these parameters to UI options, or to make a default setting based on the user's location.

As I said I haven't been following this so I really don't know where this project stands right now and if this is already being addressed, but anyway, In short, I just think it's important that what Brickstore will provide as the priceguide prices match what you would get on Bricklink. If not, we end up with some very unpleasant subtle-but-long-term price skewing effects that happen without users being aware of it. That is why I think this is a really important issue.

paramecie commented 3 years ago

Hi Teup :-)

That's a deep subject and I'm not sure it's important or urgent.

Don't forget that to be able to see ANY Price Guide you've to be logged in; so BrickLink knows your Country and can adapt the prices to you. It's not the case right now using BrickStore, so this price may not mean anything locally.

But in 15 years on BL I could determine that while having a too low or too high price may be a problem on some items, the pricing isn't really the or even a problem for a shop (again, if it's decent). There are more important strategies.

Right now "race to bottom" (IMHO) isn't due to any Avg price race, but simply some bulk sellers finding 20 000 or 50 000 small parts being sold, for some under the euro (or dollar) cent - and probably while even making profit of those sales... Those being what I call technically "free" parts, and maybe some were acquired for free (gray market...)

I think BrickStore could temporarily have a Disclaimer here (quickly typed, an example):

HTH?

ZZJHONS commented 3 years ago

Thanks for reporting this Issue Teup!

A example that him posted on the forum and that happened to me the other day:

I have one part for sale that only I have in Bricklink. If I reprice all my inventory to current average twice a year without checking big differences... Then this item would lose around 21% of it's price each time...

So if something can be done to improve the price Guide, would be great.

Maybe an option to have our API credentials to retrieve correct info. With daily limit counter of course...

Sergio, from Stellar Bricks

TeupFleup commented 3 years ago

Hi Sergio,

Yeah, that would be great.. but unfortunately the API is so slow! :( I made a tool that downloads prices and it takes a long time. Hopefully there will be a way that's both fast and at the same time offers these regional settings!

Cheers,

Mathieu

Op di 12 jan. 2021 om 16:39 schreef ZZJHONS notifications@github.com:

Thanks for reporting this Issue Teup!

A example that him posted on the forum and that happened to me the other day:

I have one part for sale that only I have in Bricklink. If I reprice all my inventory to current average twice a year without checking big differences... Then this item would lose around 21% of it's price each time...

So if something can be done to improve the price Guide, would be great.

Maybe an option to have our API credentials to retrieve correct info. With daily limit counter of course...

Sergio, from Stellar Bricks

— You are receiving this because you authored the thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/rgriebl/brickstore/issues/80#issuecomment-758742116, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ASOBGVTXPMWNL7BN4JVMPNLSZRUMPANCNFSM4V7IOZGQ .

kencb commented 3 years ago

Dealing with BrickLink is frustrating beyond belief. Even using the, yes very slow, store API you still don't get data that agrees with what you see on the web page. I can pull the price guide for a part and on the web it can show 20 sales for December, while the data via the API show only 13 sales for December! Same region and currency settings in both cases. The Min and Max prices may or may not match depending on what sales are left out in the API data. Average prices will of course never match.

Why is this? Why does it have to be like this? If BrickOwl had more traffic and "clout" I'd just get data from there instead. It would probable be far more reliable... I don't think I have seen this kind of incompetency anywhere else as I see from the BL staff. Ever.

Yes you can claim the 6 months sales data does not matter, but it does. It is what buyers use as a guide. You go too much above it and your sales drop. It is a fact. And with the price ranges we talk about here, even a cent can make a huge difference.

Since BS can't get accurate data, and it looks like it's just not possible no matter how it's done, how do you guys handle pricing? Can't just make them up. And looking them up one by one on the web is really time consuming.

Ken

ZZJHONS commented 3 years ago

You have to take into account that the sales you see in Bricklink website are divided in currency not in regions

kencb commented 3 years ago

Well yes and no. You can filter by region and see per currency or consolidated. Either way you don't get the same data. I look at sales in EU. Consolidated clumps all sales in EU into EUR and 6 months list. Per currency you see the same sales but per country. Pick out EU countries from there and it's essentially the same (still seems to be off by a couple total sales or so).

Pulling data for EU via the API does not even come close.

kencb commented 3 years ago

And this then brings me to the point that nothing on BL is consistent and works as advertised. Things are understood and supposed to work a certain way, but never really do. There does not seem to be much rhyme or reason on how things actually work and as long as BL does not care it is more or less a hopeless endeavor.

kencb commented 3 years ago

Ok, I don't know if any of you are interested in more details on this but I'll bring up one more detail I have found.

6 month data viewed as consolidated includes more countries than what the filter setting is set to. Even when set to EU, it still includes sales from USA also. Current items for sale list appears to filter correctly.

The whole price guide is a mix and mess. The API another mess on top.

TeupFleup commented 3 years ago

Thanks for the replies guys!

Hi Teup :-)

That's a deep subject and I'm not sure it's important or urgent.

Hmm well, I disagree with this, I actually think this is pretty important. Although I think I need to emphasize what part exactly is important, because I didn't want to get all perfectionist or all philosophical about the priceguide in itself :)

As for the currency conversion inaccuracy that I pointed out, this errs in both directions, so I guess you could say it's not that important. And as for the problem kencb pointed out with the mismatching API (didn't know about that actually!) while it may be frustrating I think that too errs both ways so there's no immediate danger in it.

But there is danger in values being consistently portrayed lower than they are, especially if you take into account people repricing things. And that's exactly what the VAT exclusion is causing, without people being aware of it.

While all observations about the workings of the priceguide are important and could be looked at given time/resources, for the sake of setting a goal for this particular issue, I would really like to narrow it down to just the fact that the priceguide downloaded by BS does not match BL. And, if I had to narrow it down even further, I'd focus it on what is consistently making prices appear lower - the VAT exclusion. Everything else, including priceguide regions and all that, is in my opinion a much smaller issue.

I know people are sometimes dissatisfied with the way the BL priceguide works, and maybe there are some very good arguments to make about it being wrong or in accurate. But I don't really want to go there. For me, it is quite simple: my buyers look at the Bricklink priceguide, and will judge my store and decide what to buy based on this. And that is all I want to have control over. If there would be software that features prices that match the Bricklink priceguide, then I will want to use this software. If it has prices that do not accurately match the Bricklink priceguide, then I will keep doing my partouts on BL.

For me the mismatch is really the only reason why I'm doing it directly on Bricklink. And, oddly, even in Bricklink's partout some prices are not accurate (if you click the priceguide detail, you see different prices sometimes! how weird is that?) but at least I know that it doesn't err towards being consistently too low or too high. I don't really like the partout process on Bricklink. And for Ninjago City it was impossible for almost a year!! Because of timeouts... so some software to do it in would be very welcome. But for me personally, I'm only going to use it if it has a (pretty) accurate priceguide.

kencb commented 3 years ago

I also see an accurate price guide as very important. Because buyers use it as a guide. Of course, this is a bit complicated because there is no "one true price guide" as it is. We don't know what settings the buyers use to view the price guide. Although now I'm not sure how much that matters for the 6 month avg since the filter settings aren't correctly used for it anyway.

My reasoning is that most EU buyers will buy from EU if possible. Even more so now when more and more strict import laws are coming into effect. Before you could pretty easily buy a minfig and have it shipped for less than 20 EUR and pay no extra fees. That should happen less as time goes on.

Most of my buyers are in EU so I'm interested in a price guide that reflects prices in EU. That appears to not be entirely possible on the web price guide for the 6 month avg since who knows what data is included in it. With the Prices by currency view it's not easy to get an overall EUR average. The store API does however seem to provide this (but I would not yet bet on it). I would need to analyze it a lot more to know for sure.

So with all that said, I have decided to make my own tool to help with this. It's pretty much working in a rough version now so that part is promising.

I actually have not used the BL part out but from looking at it, it would need improvement to really be helpful. For my workflow, BrickStock/BrickStore is far better suited for parting out. If I can then combine it with my pricing tool it should be a huge improvement from what I have done so far. If it works out well, I can add more useful features to it as time goes on. I doubt we'll ever see seller tools show up on BL.

paramecie commented 3 years ago

And this then brings me to the point that nothing on BL is consistent and works as advertised.

Strongly disagree here.

It's like this people saying BrickLink creates lots or qty which doesn't exist in their shop; it's 100% untrue. But it's complicated how BrickLink works, and many don't know the whole hidden mecanisms, and human error is a major factor here also.

Regarding the BrickLink Price Guide, it's consistent AFAIK (at least on the web pages, I don't know about APIs). Now, there may be some difference between web pages AND the API. Those differences may be due to different times/hours when the page content/API is refreshed: instantly or every morning? I didn't check this. And orders cancellations? But also in the meaning - what is "EU" (right now, UK is in BrickLink EU). It doesn't mean either VAT, it's geographical. And what about a sale that applied to a guy who lived in EU then moved to USA?

Again, I think there a million of glitches and wishes on BrickLink but I think the orders, lots and fundamentals of the whole is VERY solid, but just extremely complicated. Don't forget they make 20 M$ per year or such on Stores inventories/sales. They may be clowns for everything but not at this game ;-)

paramecie commented 3 years ago

Because buyers use it as a guide.

Again, if pricing is decent, lots, qty, shipping methods, service... is more important than price.

Why would you compare a 2 cents of difference when you'd have to pay an extra 20$ of shipping, or maybe 5 orders at 20$ shipping each?

I mean as a "regular buyer" looking for something to build. If I'd need 5000 * 3023 Tan, then YES, I would search for the cheapest. While I would still compare the shipping cost and delay. But I'm not a bulker, so people aren't coming in shop for prices - I may be lucky, though ;-)

kencb commented 3 years ago

But it's complicated how BrickLink works, and many don't know the whole hidden mecanisms, and human error is a major factor here also.

To me that's just saying the same thing but in a different way.

If I choose to filter on EU, then it should filter on EU. It does not. So it's not working right/as advertised.

Part of the problem here is that BL does not explain exactly how things are intended to work. I just see that in some cases it does not work as the very scant info would indicate. Maybe at this point they don't even know how it all is supposed to work. That is not a good thing.

The fact that you can get the price guide in at least three different ways and it's not possible to get any of them to agree is not a good thing.

And yes, BL still counts UK as part of EU. Would think $20M per year would be enough to get that handled.

kencb commented 3 years ago

Again, if pricing is decent, lots, qty, shipping methods, service... is more important than price.

And how do you as a seller decide if a price is 'decent'? How does a buyer decide?

paramecie commented 3 years ago

If I choose to filter on EU, then it should filter on EU. It does not. So it's not working right/as advertised.

Where? Web site? API? Last 6 months? Avg? Specific case to show us? Did it change/corrected the next day? Please guys forget the Price Guide; it's just an approximation, not a Science.

paramecie commented 3 years ago

And how do you as a seller decide if a price is 'decent'? How does a buyer decide?

A price is decent when:

I can make a decent margin on buying price,
It's not the first or the last price on BrickLink - even if in some specific cases it can be.

chiminirc commented 3 years ago

If I choose to filter on EU, then it should filter on EU. It does not. So it's not working right/as advertised.

Where? Web site? API? Last 6 months? Avg? Specific case to show us? Did it change/corrected the next day? Please guys forget the Price Guide; it's just an approximation, not a Science.

My pricing is very much a science. I've resorted to my own scripts to price high volume parts the lowest for just my region. This in turn earns orders for parts that sit at 30-50% above 6 month average. I can't speak to the sellers outside the US but a working price guide is critical and important. I have some of the highest feedback for my shipping speed and packing. Nearly all my orders are 1st time to my store. Price matters, a LOT.

chiminirc commented 3 years ago

The price guide is also important post sale. I load an order and then reload pricing to see how much more I made over the average. The price difference immediately highlight important data for me in red and green. Especially if items remakes "fixed" where I'm not beating 6ma. Time for a reprice. I have certain parts where a 1-2 cent price change is a difference between qty 40 lots, and 100+ qty lots multiple times per week.

chiminirc commented 3 years ago

And how do you as a seller decide if a price is 'decent'? How does a buyer decide?

A price is decent when:

I can make a decent margin on buying price,

It's not the first or the last price on BrickLink - even if in some specific cases it can be.

A buyer looks at the part and compares the average. If they are paying much over, they feel they are getting ripped off. If they see it is 20% or more under, they thing "Wow a REAL sale, not just 50% off a price that is 3 times over the average"

As a seller. How much it is above or below average dictates the deal. In fact I'd say it's even more than that. a 30 cent price with a 25 cent 6ma is 20% increase but "only" 5 cent more in the buyer's eyes. If there was software where I could take the priceguide data, apply 50% for parts under 10 cents, 25% more for parts under 20 cents, 10% more under $1, and use 6ma for anything over a $1.

I also use pricing to set the pace. I use it as a throttle so when order get to be more than 5 a day, I go up. Less, I go down. If I want to flood myself with orders, set them to 6ma. I would think seeing the buying behavior on these price changes would indicate price is king over anything else. If only I knew how many of my orders comes in via Wish list, easy buy, or manual orders.

TeupFleup commented 3 years ago

Interesting discussion. I think I already said it, but will stress again.. whether or not the priceguide makes sense, it is what the buyer sees. From 15 years of selling experience, I have found that pricing a 10 cent part (according to the price guide) at 11 cents tends to cause it to be sold much, much later on than when I price it at 0.09. (My) buyers seem to be very sensitive to prices dropping below what the priceguide says is average. So I'm not really concerned with the value in and of it self (which is only a few percents, small stuff), but the vast difference in circulation time of the parts. For me the priceguide is more about appearances than anything else, so it's something I'd like to have control over. (in my case, make sure it's never below average otherwise I run out too quickly)

I guess not all buyers are like this, but back in the day when I was buying, I was a real priceguide nut. I would compile orders in several stores at the same time and for every other entry I would check the priceguide and only buy it when it was below the average. I was way too much of a cheapskate so it's not entirely representative, but then again, I operate in the Dutch market and Dutch people are famous for being cheapskates in general, so.... ;)

kencb commented 3 years ago

As a seller. How much it is above or below average dictates the deal. In fact I'd say it's even more than that. a 30 cent price with a 25 cent 6ma is 20% increase but "only" 5 cent more in the buyer's eyes. If there was software where I could take the priceguide data, apply 50% for parts under 10 cents, 25% more for parts under 20 cents, 10% more under $1, and use 6ma for anything over a $1.

Hey you have given me great ideas for things to eventually add to my tool. In fact I also use similar ideas depending on what type of part, etc, that I'm already adding to it.

kencb commented 3 years ago

Interesting discussion. I think I already said it, but will stress again.. whether or not the priceguide makes sense, it is what the buyer sees. From 15 years of selling experience, I have found that pricing a 10 cent part (according to the price guide) at 11 cents tends to cause it to be sold much, much later on than when I price it at 0.09. (My) buyers seem to be very sensitive to prices dropping below what the priceguide says is average. So I'm not really concerned with the value in and of it self (which is only a few percents, small stuff), but the vast difference in circulation time of the parts. For me the priceguide is more about appearances than anything else, so it's something I'd like to have control over. (in my case, make sure it's never below average otherwise I run out too quickly)

And that is why it is so important that we could get that same exact price guide (via an API) that buyers (and I) see on the web.

chiminirc commented 3 years ago

As a seller. How much it is above or below average dictates the deal. In fact I'd say it's even more than that. a 30 cent price with a 25 cent 6ma is 20% increase but "only" 5 cent more in the buyer's eyes. If there was software where I could take the priceguide data, apply 50% for parts under 10 cents, 25% more for parts under 20 cents, 10% more under $1, and use 6ma for anything over a $1.

Hey you have given me great ideas for things to eventually add to my tool. In fact I also use similar ideas depending on what type of part, etc, that I'm already adding to it.

Your tool?

paramecie commented 3 years ago

A buyer looks at the part and compares the average. If they are paying much over, they feel they are getting ripped off. If they see it is 20% or more under, they thing "Wow a REAL sale, not just 50% off a price that is 3 times over the average"

I see now the difference between you and me.

You're shipping locally and consider a local Price Guide. Yes, locally, with mainly the same shipping price on 1 or a very few items, price may make a difference for buyers byuing locally and in concurrence between local sellers.

But people come in my shop with a wanted-list, and 1 single order with sometimes "higher" prices is FAR better than 5 orders with 5 shippings cross-borders or even cross-continents.

paramecie commented 3 years ago

I operate in the Dutch market and Dutch people are famous for being cheapskates in general, so.... ;)

Yes, same as I wrote above. This can make a difference in a local market (or mainly local anyway), I agree on this!

paramecie commented 3 years ago

And that is why it is so important that we could get that same exact price guide (via an API) that buyers (and I) see on the web.

Which buyer? A pro buying from a pro located in Germany? A buyer in South Korea? A Netherlands' one paying VAT?

Saving 2 cents? What's about 20$ shipping compared to this 10$ or free shipping starting at 50€? Up to which qty is it interesting to buy with this shipping? And the delay? And the 10€ Import tax (+ VAT or not)?

Yep - I'd like this tool. It's not a Price Guide though, it's AI we need :-)

paramecie commented 3 years ago

Your tool?

I guess "big" sellers have their own tools ;-) And of course, mine is better. But the others think the same :-)

kencb commented 3 years ago

Yep - I'd like this tool. It's not a Price Guide though, it's AI we need :-)

I'm putting together a tool to help me in the pricing of part outs since the way I have done it so far is too time consuming. Yes, I used the BS 6ma feature for a long time but it resulted in some prices being too far off. So I'm hoping getting a more specific price guide data will help. Time will tell.

AI.. yes we need Machine Learning! ;)

chiminirc commented 3 years ago

A buyer looks at the part and compares the average. If they are paying much over, they feel they are getting ripped off. If they see it is 20% or more under, they thing "Wow a REAL sale, not just 50% off a price that is 3 times over the average"

I see now the difference between you and me.

You're shipping locally and consider a local Price Guide. Yes, locally, with mainly the same shipping price on 1 or a very few items, price may make a difference for buyers byuing locally and in concurrence between local sellers.

But people come in my shop with a wanted-list, and 1 single order with sometimes "higher" prices is FAR better than 5 orders with 5 shippings cross-borders or even cross-continents.

Close, the brickstock priceguide download does the heavy lifting. However I have to resort to using my own tools to keep track of what is going on in the US. I need to know the lowest price on a new minifig in my region I'm assuming we all want that, to a point. Price guide downloads that "matter to our region".

I would assume you would benefit to know pricing on specific items limited to just your region? perhaps exclude those that have the lowest price at 0.12 for qty one but you just want to come in under 0.25 for the guy with qty 10+.

paramecie commented 3 years ago

I would assume you would benefit to know pricing on specific items limited to just your region?

No, sorry and sincerely not. Not regional or even my Country, for which sales are (relatively) minor.

And as said above: I now can see our difference; and I don't think the BL Price Guide would help you much.

Regarding BrickStore (the subject here), I also can't see how it can give you the information you'd need?

rgriebl commented 3 years ago

Thanks for starting this discussion and getting me up to speed with current state -- been out of the loop for a while now. Let me quickly recap the mechanisms we have:

The BrickStore way: I use a very old API that Dan made available on my request back in the day. Since it's so old, it doesn't know anything about VAT and that's the problem we are seeing right now.
The BrickStock way: They switched from Dan's CSV API to an undocumented JSON API (affiliate/v1) with an compiled-in secret key. Still no VAT support (maybe there is, but I can't find any docs on this), but very fast, because it can batch multiple requests into one.
HTML scraping: I really don't want to go down that rabbit hole. It'll sure be correct, but it'll also be a nightmare to implement and then more so to maintain in the long run.
Using the JSON Store API: It's complicated (every user has to register himself), but it seems like I can get the exact same data out of that as I see on BL's web pages. http://apidev.bricklink.com/redmine/projects/bricklink-api/wiki/CatalogMethod#Get-Price-Guide

So it seems like 4. is the obvious way to go. Pros:

we get all the data, including parts per country and filter on country/region and with/without VAT

Cons:

Instead of requesting 4 lines of CSV data in a single HTTP GET, BrickStore would now have to make 4 [New, Used] x [6ma, current] individual requests through an OAuth API, each returning a huge JSON response. Currently I have not implemented enough of this API to measure how much slower this would become.
Every BS user would have to register to this API, create secret keys and copy all 4 (!!) of those into BS.

chiminirc commented 3 years ago

This would explain why I see such different behavior in brickstore and brickstock. It makes sense that the priceguide requests were bundled and why I NEVER got near my daily request limit.

Thoughts, A long time ago I spoke with someone that analyzed the source for brickstock regrading "The BrickStock way" and the undocumented and the secret key (Looking for a way to get price data the same way). What if we all made requests into bricklink stating we'd like an API that can be leveraged by brickstore without the need for personal keys? Personally I think putting in that requirement into the app to get priceguide data would reduce the friendliness of the app. I understand it would be a large lift to implement a "Use advanced price guide data" options menu. It would allow you to get the current price guide data while allowing others to tick a box and enter the credentials for "Advanced" price guide data.

ZZJHONS commented 3 years ago

Big Con: 5000 calls daily limit, That also counts calls done by other softwares the seller uses.

Maybe only make it an advanced option that uses the user API credential to download a correct Price Guide for the items requested?

paramecie commented 3 years ago

Uhhh @chiminirc & others, rethink factors:

I guess no Price Guide accounts the VAT and much more VAT in between pros in EU Countries (then no VAT),
I'm sure no Price Guide adds the very often PayPal fees and other fees of many sellers,
Even locally, like here in France, I know 1 reputed seller who increases the shipping price for about a 10€ extra per shipment !

And of course, that can't account the quality of even said New parts - some sellers I've found sell crap, literally (Pick a Brick ?)

Price Guide is an illusion pals! Use it as an approximation, but not to set exact prices - which (I wrote about this above) doesn't matter in fact considering the extra fees and costs.

In shorter, the current system is enough (for me) and I really think it can't be improved for now. ALL the systems will provide anyway an erroneous result; so why changing it to have a different but also wrong result? ;-)

And I agree on the 5000 limit danger. I already have been temporarily banned for this, it hurts really; you can't even enter your shop (apart with a mobile, but then you can't do anything)...

rgriebl commented 3 years ago

I just extracted the "secret" key from the BrickStock binary and tested the affiliate/v1 API, but there's no way to get any VAT related information out of it

chiminirc commented 3 years ago

@paramecie , forgive me for being direct. We are talking about how the application can pull in price guide data, how other apps do it, and future ways for the app to do it. I respectfully ask you're repeated comments about how "useles the priceguide data is" be omitted. It takes away from ways to improve the application and although I'd like to respond to your bullet points, this doesn't seem like the venue for bickering on how we run and price our stores.

paramecie commented 3 years ago

@chiminirc Thanks to be direct. And I didn't wish you to tell you how to manage your business either.

But Price Guide on BrickLink is erroneous (see the bullet points above) and ANY Price Guide BrickStore could use will be wrong because of this. See Robert recent post just above.

What I say is - in this case, when you've erroneous data (AvgP +/- 25%?) that you know about, the problem isn't the erroneous data, but the careful use of them.

In short, with current Price Guide you could say for a price: "Well, I'm probably under the AvgP" or "I'm one of the cheapest", or "I'm in the high second half of the sellers above AvgP".

But trying "I wish to be 2% under something" (due to the possible +/- 25% error) is - IMHO - wrong.

kencb commented 3 years ago

The BL web price guide IS the correct price guide because it IS what buyers see and use. That is the key here. It is what buyers use.

paramecie commented 3 years ago

The BL web price guide IS the correct price guide because it IS what buyers see and use. That is the key here. It is what buyers use.

The Price Guide a buyer sees depends of the buyer, not of what the seller wants to show.

Different buyer = different AvgP. So there is no "BL Price Guide" there are "millions".

Or I'm totally wrong and tired (didn't sleep this night)

kencb commented 3 years ago

The Price Guide a buyer sees depends of the buyer, not of what the seller wants to show. Different buyer = different AvgP.

Kind of. Maybe. Perhaps. But the issues discussed here is that you cannot 'see' the same guide in BrickStock as a buyer can see on the web. Even if both are at the same location. Same computer. Same user even.

paramecie commented 3 years ago

Oh then the same Price Guide settings for everyone? https://www.bricklink.com/priceGuideSettings.asp?viewFrom=P

But you're right about this - I'll play with those settings and locations, and will see how it's different. That's very interesting.

paramecie commented 3 years ago

Sorry for THE LONG and detailed example.

I just tested on 62462 Dark Pink (few sales, won't change in between tests). https://www.bricklink.com/catalogPG.asp?P=62462&colorID=47

BrickStore on a new file in EUROS, exchange rate a few seconds ago, price guide forced to be refreshed:

Current Avg: 0.321 EUR

BrickLink, as logged in my shop, extract :

Current Avg: 0.340 EUR

Now same Price Guide, but clicking "Grouped by Currency" :

Current Avg: 0.3811 EUR (but for only EUR prices Avg)

Now I'm an other user and I changed the settings to have only the European Prices:

Current Avg: 0.360 EUR

In my European Country:

Current Avg: 0.340 EUR

Now I'm a buyer in Hong Kong, with HK$ as a currency

I immediately convert this on XE.com (the same as BrickLink uses)

Current Avg: 3.01 HKD = 0.320 EUR

In short, for the same item and Current Avg:

• BrickStore shows 0.321 EUR (corresponds to ONE of the BrickLink AvgP)

• BrickLink shows from 0.320 to 0.381 EUR, which is up to 19% difference, depending your Currency and settings.

For Sets it's even worse - as some options reduce to Complete/Incomplete, etc.

I wrote above +/- 25% (I just imagined this number), and on this example we can see up to almost 20% difference on BrickLink, and for a simple lot with almost no "abnormal price" (price dispersion is "normal").

Then, what is the Average Price of this lot?

PS: of course it's easier if you're targeting local buyers in the same currency. Hoping they did NOT changed their Price Guide settings ;-)

ZZJHONS commented 3 years ago

With the seller API I think you can get a the country of the seller and the buyer, so in theory you could gather the 6 month price of a part without VAT. But some sellers are not VAT registered, so this would still not be exact...

As paramecie says, there is no correct Price Guide, but the best we can hope is see the same in BrickStore and Bricklink website...

kencb commented 3 years ago

You also need to be aware that the consolidated view does not obey your filter settings. Frankly, I'm not sure what it includes or doesn't.

paramecie commented 3 years ago

Errrmmmm... you both don't see that depending the buyer the Avg price (in the above case) is 20% different on BrickLink?

Or you wish to see the same Price Guide as YOU see on BrickLink, with your settings and currency? Knowing it may not be the same for buyers?

kencb commented 3 years ago

It is not possible to see the same guide in BS as what you see on the web page. No matter what settings you pick. That is the problem. It's not about looking at different views on the page trying to decide which one is right. That's up to each one to decide for their own situation. Again, the problem is you can't get the same info in BS as you can get on the page.

paramecie commented 3 years ago

1) BrickStore DOES NOT download the Price as being "you" and "your settings". So there's no way it could get the same result as when you see it on Firefox/Edge/Chrome. I mean, as long it doesn't do it differently. But then could appear some more problems, including server overload.

2) Even if you get what you want, what's the purpose? To set a price relative to an Average (for ex) which may be different than the one the buyer sees?

kencb commented 3 years ago

BrickStore DOES NOT download the Price as being "you" and "your settings". So there's no way it could get the same result.

Exactly! That is the problem.

Even if you get what you want, what's the purpose? To set a price relative to an Average (for ex) which may be different than the one the buyer sees?

I sell in EU and my competition is in EU so I care about prices within EU. I don't care what a seller in Singapore or Brazil or somewhere sells at or what their prices are.

paramecie commented 3 years ago

I sell in EU and my competition is in EU so I care about prices within EU. I don't care what a seller in Singapore or Brazil or somewhere sells at or what their prices are.

Of course!

But do you see in the example above that in EU the Current Avg in BrickLink varies from 0.34 up to 0.38 depending the settings?

That's 0.04/0.34 = 12% difference between the lowest and the highest Average.

rgriebl commented 3 years ago

There is a new dev build in 'Actions' that implements a new PG download: it uses the one you can view inline when adding parts directly via the BL web interface. It comes with VAT included, but is limited to 2 decimal places. I have the option to use more decimals when retrieving as YOUR user, but this also applies all your priceguide settings from BL, which (a) can mess up the parser if you switch off some fields and (b) makes the parsing more complicated, because I have to deal with different currencies. So for now, I'd just like to get feedback if

this works for you at all
the performance is ok
the values make sense (it should be the global averages, incl. VAT ... whatever that means ;)

rgriebl / brickstore

Accurate priceguide #80