Open GoogleCodeExporter opened 9 years ago
Original comment by roozbeh@google.com
on 22 Jul 2014 at 4:22
In Bulgaria both glyph variants are used. I wouldn't say either is more common,
more known or more Bulgarian. The so called Bulgarian Cyrillic is a font design
trend that started in the 1960s in Bulgaria and it doesn't make all previous
(i.e. identical to the Russian glyphs) Cyrillic font usage any less Bulgarian.
Ideally it would be nice to have both variants as different fonts, e.g. the
more (internationally) common glyphs in the default fonts (Noto Sans and Noto
Serif) as they are now and separate fonts Noto Sans Bulgarian and Noto Serif
Bulgarian with the Bulgarian glyphs instead. Having the default fonts use the
Bulgarian glyphs for Bulgarian would be just annoying as many people prefer the
international glyph set. In addition, the Bulgarian glyphs are gaining
popularity in Russia so having them as a separate font will make it easy for
people to choose.
Original comment by paveldr...@gmail.com
on 5 Aug 2014 at 8:48
I think Pavel provides an excellent summary of the situation. I might add:
1. Using the terms "Russian Cyrillic" vs. "Bulgarian Cyrillic" is a bit of a
misnomer. The Cyrillic script is used to write more than 50 languages,
including large languages such as Russian (167M speakers), Ukrainian (36M),
Uzbek (22M), Serbian, Kazakh and Bulgarian (8M each), Tajiki (4M) Belarussian
and Kyrgyz (3M each) and many others. At least several countries where Cyrillic
is a majority script have an active type design community (Russia, Ukraine,
Serbia, Bulgaria), and the number of Cyrillic-based language users in Central
Asia also makes it a notable community.
2. It is true that the current mainstream Cyrillic type design follows the
model which was initially based on the "civil type" reform by Russian tsar
Peter I, and was heavily influenced in the 20th century by the predominance of
the Soviet Union as both a very large market for Cyrillic type and an important
centre of Cyrillic type design. Instead of "Russian", I would call them
"traditional" or, as Pavel proposes "international".
3. It is also true that the so-called "Bulgarian" letterform model has been
proposed by a group of Bulgarian designers in the 1960s, and has recently been
gaining new popularity from a group of younger "digital" Bulgarian type
designers. But I agree with Pavel that this model is potentially useful and of
interest for more than just Bulgarian language. All these forms are readable
for any Cyrillic script user (though may seem unorthodox or uncommon). They're
not tied to any language in particular, and are not the majority of forms used
in Bulgaria, but are more a stylistic variant, and, in my view, are actually
useful. But it does seem indeed that in Bulgaria, the number of readers for
whom these forms are preferred or at least acceptable, is largest among all
Cyrillic-using countries.
4. At this point, I think it would make sense to include the Bulgarian forms as
stylistic alternates or stylistic sets of the primary Cyrillic glyphs. I'm not
sure if they would make sense as "localized forms" for the Bulgarian (BGR)
language, as some Bulgarian speakers may actually still prefer the traditional
forms.
5. I should add that some of the most recent Windows system fonts (such as
Calibri Light) do include the Bulgarian forms as "localized forms for
Bulgarian". So perhaps it would make sense to include them.
6. I should mention that potentially, there are many more glyphs in Latin and
Cyrillic glyph sets of Noto where localized variants would be useful. I'm not
entirely sure if creating separate fonts with all these combinations as default
would make sense, but it's up to you. I certainly see no harm in releasing
"Noto Sans BGR" and "Noto Serif BGR" in addition of mapping the Bulgarian forms
as either localized forms or stylistic sets (using OpenType Layout features
"locl", "ssXX" and "salt") in the main fonts.
Best,
Adam Twardoch
Original comment by a...@twardoch.com
on 25 Oct 2014 at 2:33
Hello,
I made a Bulgarian cyrillic copy of Noto Serif. In the attached image you can
check the differences between Bulgarian and Russian cyrillic.
It will be great if you include the Bulgarian cyrillic in Noto family.
Original comment by ste...@parnarov.com
on 25 Oct 2014 at 12:16
Attachments:
Hi Danail,
many thanks for the BGC version of Noto family.
Definitely appreciation of the Noto family!
About your screenshot, it seems that the upper K is different in BGC? It got
this nice "round bend", but it’s not marked green. :)
Original comment by thomas.s...@googlemail.com
on 25 Oct 2014 at 1:38
Adam,
your description is not quite right. The so-called Bulgarian forms were not a
"proposal" in the 1960s, the are a result of a big research about the cyrillic
script in the Middle Ages and how would the possible cyrillic script
development look like during the Renaissance and in the modern time. The
problem was and still is that the reform of Petar I was some kind of quick and
dirty job how can we make cyrillic printable and more compared to latin script.
So the group leaded by Prof. Vassil Iounchev decided to go back to the origin
and make a logical simulation.
There are als arguments like using Small Caps with the russian forms looks bad
because there is no difference between upper- and lowercase
Original comment by botjonik...@gmail.com
on 25 Oct 2014 at 4:23
Stefan,
I would like to make a small correction the serifs in the bulgarian И и look also different.
Original comment by botjonik...@gmail.com
on 25 Oct 2014 at 4:33
Original comment by botjonik...@gmail.com
on 25 Oct 2014 at 4:34
Attachments:
Something important – in Bulgaria we live in a moment of some kind of
'critical mass' of Bulgarian Cyrillic Model. There is a big hunger for diverse
fonts, containing the glyphs of the Bulgarian Cyrillic. For most of the
Bulgarians there is indisputable choice when it comes for choosing Russian or
Bulgarian model, but we are lacking enough affordable fonts with BG Cyrillic,
especially for web use. There are also a lot of discussions and plans among the
State institutions how to emerge from the current situation with a social and
culturally responsible act. Soon it will go public.
Original comment by kzlatko...@gmail.com
on 25 Oct 2014 at 4:40
I strongly support the idea of adding Bulgarian Cyrillic to the type family. I
want to point out, that the idea of the so called "Bulgarian Cyrillic" is
definitely not a vagary of some bizzare group of Bulgarian type designers, but
quite the contrary - it is (as sad in the previous post) a product of long and
careful studies about finding a true minuscule form of Cyrillic. A form that is
harmonic, logically sound and corresponding to the principles of the minuscule
as writing system (as evident in Latin typefaces), not just scaled down capital
letters...
I will not go into detailed explanations about the origins of Bulgarian
Cyrillic, nor will I start a discussion Russian vs. Bulgarian form of Cyrillic.
I just want to mention, that the Bulgarian Cyrillic is of growing popularity
these days, and is gaining "critical mass" as we speak, so i believe that it is
sound decision, business-wise, to add such alternates/variant to your family.
I will also refer you to the following resources and type foundries dealing
with Bulgarian Cyrillic, for further reference:
+A nice overview of Bulgarian and Russian Cyrillic
http://cyrillicsly.com/
+Bulgaria's biggest type foundry with lots of good examples
https://www.hermessoft.com/
+Some more interesting type designers working with Bulgarian Cyrillic
Kateliev - http://www.kateliev.com/
Gruev - http://moire.info/
Zlatkov - https://www.behance.net/rand0mabstract
Jelev - https://www.behance.net/epixs
....
Original comment by katel...@gmail.com
on 25 Oct 2014 at 5:03
Here are some interesting examples, that i could find easily on the web:
Example of Bulgarian versions of Myriad and Rotis Semi Serif
Original comment by katel...@gmail.com
on 25 Oct 2014 at 5:08
Attachments:
Some Specimens of Bulgarian typefaces:
Basil by Kateliev (Granshan 2014 Cyrillic text - special mention award)
Helen by Hermessoft (Helvetica based)
Universum by Hermessoft (Univers based)
...
and etc. see list of sites provided in previous post
Original comment by katel...@gmail.com
on 25 Oct 2014 at 5:25
Attachments:
Hi guys,
Тhank you for your commitment.
Thomas - my name is Stefan, not Danail, but anyway :). Yes the K is different
it’s my mistake I didn’t mark it in green.
Botjonik - feel free to make any corrections that will make it look better. You
can contact me if you need some help.
Right now I’m working on BGC for Noto Sans and will upload it here when
it’s ready. Hope you keep the interest. :)
Original comment by ste...@parnarov.com
on 26 Oct 2014 at 2:25
FWIW, there also seems to be some interesting information on the topic here:
http://typophile.com/node/34265
Original comment by roozbeh@google.com
on 28 Oct 2014 at 5:22
Original comment by roozbeh@google.com
on 16 Jan 2015 at 6:02
Note that the capital Ф in Bulgarian typefaces often looks differently too.
Namely, its oval might have all the proportions of the О letter.
Original comment by thorn.mailbox@gmail.com
on 9 Feb 2015 at 6:29
Attachments:
Original issue reported on code.google.com by
thomas.s...@googlemail.com
on 22 Jul 2014 at 1:43Attachments: