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rotators / Fo1in2

Fallout 1 to 2 engine conversion
https://nma-fallout.com/threads/218045/
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How to get F2 mechanics back #37

Closed burner1024 closed 1 year ago

burner1024 commented 4 years ago

In particular, skill cost and max. I think F2 way is better.

Lexx2k commented 4 years ago

Skill costs are defined in the /config/skills.ini file. If you delete it, you'll get Fo2 values back. Personally I advise against this, though, because it unbalances the game a lot. For example, you will start the game with a very high Outdoorsman skill, etc which doesn't fit into the Fo1 setting.

200% max skill is set in gl_fo1mechanics.ssl - I could probably add a toggle for that, but to be honest, it doesn't feel worth it. Barely anyone will make it to > 200% skills, and in Fo1 it is completely useless to put more than max 150% into any skill in the first place.

burner1024 commented 4 years ago

Are starting values also different? Didn't notice that. Thing is, I got to 150+ in guns even before taking out the raiders, which seems a little too easy.

Lexx2k commented 4 years ago

It's the way the skills are calculated that is very different in Fo1. For Small Guns, as example, the initial value is 35% + (1% * AG) while in Fo2 it is 5% + (4% * AG) - obviously this makes a huge difference. :>

I don't mind this, tbh, because the game isn't nearly as big as Fo2, and on a "normal" run, you would probably finish the game at ~ level 14. That only gives you a limited amount of skill points anyway and you won't be able to max out skills without suffering somewhere.

burner1024 commented 4 years ago

But I like suffering... Actually, assuming 9-10 AG, with which I strongly suspect almost everyone starts out, it's pretty much the same. Anyway, I take your point.

Lexx2k commented 4 years ago

I never use 9-10 AG. :D My characters have never more than max. 8 APs, usually I just roll with 7 APs even.

It's really not that Fo2's skill calculation is making the game harder. It's just different. See the Outdoorsman-example: In Fo2 it makes sense to start the game with a high Outdoorsman skill, while in Fo1 it makes no sense.

What would make the game harder is changing the required skill points per +% of skill increase. And this can be adjusted in the skills.ini file.

burner1024 commented 4 years ago

I never use 9-10 AG. :D My characters have never more than max. 8 APs, usually I just roll with 7 APs even.

Guess you like suffering even more than I :).

What would make the game harder is changing the required skill points per +% of skill increase. And this can be adjusted in the skills.ini file.

Well, I looked at it, but format isn't immediately obvious, maybe add an example or something?

wipe2238 commented 4 years ago

Well, I looked at it, but format isn't immediately obvious, maybe add an example or something?

https://github.com/phobos2077/sfall/blob/master/artifacts/config_files/Skills.ini

I feel sfall should handle skills stuff differently, it's not even first time we get question about it from people who would rather use FO2 formula.

burner1024 commented 4 years ago

https://github.com/phobos2077/sfall/blob/master/artifacts/config_files/Skills.ini

Ah, this is native sfall thing, I thought it was something EtTu-specific. In that case, I'd like to suggest to at least keep the explanation inside the file.

Lexx2k commented 4 years ago

Huh, this file looks different than the one we use. Looks like BasedOnPoints and SkillMulti2 is new. When I did the skill changes, it was still based around SkillCost0=300 which means with a max of 300%, 1 skill point will set 1%.

Anarcho-Bolshevik commented 2 years ago

What about the new perks that Fallout 2 added? Would those be worth including? (Excluding the implants and other special perks, the new ones are Adrenaline Rush, Cautious Nature, Comprehension, Demolition Expert, Gain, Gambler, Harmless, Here and Now, HtH Evade, Kama Sutra Master, Karma Beacon, Light Step, Living Anatomy, Magnetic Personality, Negotiator, Pack Rat, Pyromaniac, Quick Recovery, Salesman, Stonewall, Thief, and Weapon Handling.)

Lexx2k commented 2 years ago

Those are already in the game.

Anarcho-Bolshevik commented 2 years ago

Damn, I should have checked more thoroughly before saying anything boneheaded. Umm… is it too late to specify these additions in README.md?

FyiurAmron commented 1 year ago

What about the new perks that Fallout 2 added? Would those be worth including? (...) the new ones are (...) Gain

Those are already in the game.

maybe I'm dumb, but it seems some of them (Gain * to be specific) were removed anyway

https://github.com/rotators/Fo1in2/blob/master/Fallout2/Fallout1in2/config/Perks.ini#L167

Lexx2k commented 1 year ago

Yes, because they are stupid in Fo1. The game is already easy enough, and SPECIAL doesn't have as much weight as in Fo2.

FyiurAmron commented 1 year ago

Yes, because they are stupid in Fo1. The game is already easy enough, and SPECIAL doesn't have as much weight as in Fo2.

@Lexx2k not that I disagree with this particular statement (frankly, both FO1 & FO2 are easy as hell regardless of settings), but it still means that you were not right by saying "Those are already in the game.", since they ain't, at least not all of the ones mentioned. I guess that someone who doesn't see them in-game although someone stated that "[they] are already in the game" will find the situation confusing. That was my only point here.

Lexx2k commented 1 year ago

You are right, I am wrong. Bit nitpicky, but whatever I guess. Now you know what file to edit to get them back.