suggestions

[utterances-bot]

Runtime Rundown

https://runtimerundown.com/suggestions

[mattmacneil]

I would like to hear more of Evan's thoughts on Sass - he's made a few asides here and there lamenting it's existence, and joyfully bringing up Sass-killing CSS features. I would also be curious to hear what Joe thinks, as I'm pretty sure he lets these sizzling hot takes slide by without comment. I don't love it myself but can tolerate it and want to know more about your opinions - are we talking TypeScript level hate?

I hate when I get someone else's code and they've constructed this huge nested mess of nested everything and over-engineered mixins with 10 arguments. But I don't mind it when it's just used for importing and very selective nesting. Is it more about the potential for abuse, or is it some philosophical opposition to defiling CSS? The people (me) want to know!

[Cooperbuilt]

I am honestly shocked that I've come across as a sass hater (clutches pearls).

We will definitely cover this!

[typing-turtle]

This makes me think of the relationship of tech to project/team/company size and complexity. What stack would you use for a small side project vs startup app vs large scale enterprise app? Do your opinions on TDD and scrum change? What about team composition? If you're opinionated about something, pick your project/job carefully so it's more likely you'll land in a role you really enjoy.

Personally I'm not picky as long as "learn and adapt" is built-in to the culture. Then evaluate what tools to apply to what situations. Also I hate sass and love tailwind 😂

[helloitsjoe]

Yeah, I think optimizing for "learn and adapt" will almost never steer you wrong. It's important to have opinionated, decisive people at a company, but it's also good for those people to be open to new information when it presents itself.

[MikeCharpin]

Hey Joe and Evan, Love the show, commenting for that positive feedback loop.

I'm trying to switch careers into web development after working in Industrial Design (think physical product design) for 10 years.

The reason I bring this up is you guys mentioned on the recent episode about "The Massive Flaw in our Industry" how in something like mechanical engineering doesn't get that kind of bloat that software engineering does. My experience the reason is everyone can see a physical product and have opinions on "how" the product functions and is made, beyond just "what" the product does at the end.

Meanwhile with software 99% of people have no idea "how" software is made, they only care what it does when its finished. As a result the engineers are given a lot more control over the development since they don't have that kind of outside opinion to contend with.

I worked at a small 3 person hardware startup where it was the CEO/Founder (MBA), Software Developer, and myself doing the hardware design. I constantly had the CEO breathing down my neck about everything I did because since he could physically see what I was doing he had opinions about it. Sometimes this was good getting fresh ideas from an outside perspective but also lead to confrontation needing to explain why documentation was important or why his proposals were a bad or even dangerous. Meanwhile the software developer could do whatever he wanted so long as the end result worked and looked good.

(A classic example of mechanical design bloat but from the top down. This video was passed around often when I was designing helmets for the military. Evan might appreciate this "Pentagon Wars - Bradley Fighting Vehicle Evolution" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXQ2lO3ieBA)

Love what you guys are doing, your passion and compassion really shine through. Your positive vibes keep me inspired to continue pursuing my career transition. Also shout out to Boston, I went college up there and have friends still insisting I move up to Beverly.

Cheers, -Mike

[Cooperbuilt]

Hey Mike! First off, thanks for stopping by to comment and for listening to our little podcast. We're 50ish episodes in and hearing from new folks really keeps the fire stoked to make another 50.

Meanwhile with software 99% of people have no idea "how" software is made, they only care what it does when its finished. As a result the engineers are given a lot more control over the development since they don't have that kind of outside opinion to contend with.

This is a super interesting point. So much of our job in software is obscured to our managers, their leaders, and even our own teammates. I've worked on parts of a codebase that even members of my own team had no idea how it worked.

This can give us freedom to decide how we get from A to B depending on the culture of the team. It also can be a sandpit where every developer on a "team" is working solo day to day.

At times I love the freedom for the problem-solving flexibility it offers. At times I wish software really was more of a team sport. I feel like I've been sold the vision of "teams of developers" but what I've mostly found is groupings of people working on approximately the same thing. Coming from a background in the military where teamwork was essential and part of everyday life, this has been a tough transition.

On a different note, thank you for designing helmets for us! As a non-commissioned officer "grunt" so to speak, I was never privy to the decision making chain like the one shown in that video (which was hilarious) but I can attest to being on the receiving end of technology that was seemingly designed by a third grader obsessed with drawing more lasers on things.

Anyways, best of luck on your journey to becoming a web developer. Both Joe and I (and many others) have made that leap from other careers. It's possible!

Keep reaching out and asking questions, we'll be here.

[helloitsjoe]

Thanks for the comment, @DeadChannelDice !

I constantly had the CEO breathing down my neck about everything I did because since he could physically see what I was doing he had opinions about it.

That sounds... super stressful. I'm happy you're enjoying the show, and like Evan said, keep reaching out with questions!

[MikeCharpin]

hahaha alright you goobers, I'll leave a suggestion ;P

Be confident with the music and transitions, but remain aware that its fun and goofy (aka don't change a thing). One of the reasons I latched onto your podcast was how you guys seemed to know the music was a little silly but stuck with it because its fun and made you smile. Not taking yourselves too serious told me I could trust your show, your in this because it's fun, not to sell something or be the loudest voice in the room.

Trying to get into web dev it's been overwhelming sifting through website, youtube channels and podcasts trying to figure out who is giving genuine advice and who pushing some agenda. You guys have been a great baseline to hear about the industry I'm trying to break into all while coming from a place of enthusiasm.

Also appreciate your effort to use inclusive language and being aware of micro aggression's, it's something I'm also working on. Many programming podcasts I checked out the hosts seemed like they just wanted a space to yell about how they're the smartest person in the room and that was tough to listen to. I've been that guy earlier in my career so hearing it now is cringe.

Big fan of the eco good news Evan's been bringing to the end of episodes, it's nice ending on a hopeful note.

Glad to hear the grass is coming in for summer :)

Cheers, -Mike

[helloitsjoe]

Now THAT’S a suggestion.

I remember that feeling of being overwhelmed by how much there is to learn (I still feel it sometimes), I’m really glad to hear we can give you a baseline to work from! I’m also happy to hear the not-taking-ourselves-too-seriously thing is working, I gravitate to that vibe too. Thanks for taking the time to write that Mike!

[persianturtle]

Joe, I'm excited to hear that you are learning Haskell! Also, it's so great to be able to tune into an episode and feel like we're all working together again in the good ol' days at Way-bleep. Miss you guys!

[helloitsjoe]

Thanks @persianturtle! I still feel like I'm wrapping my head around the basics of Haskell but so far I'm really liking it!

[hamlim]

Looks like the site is lagging behind the podcast feed, unsure if y’all were aware of that yet!

—- On the Data Informed, Not Data Dogma episode:

I did listen until the end! Enjoyed this and the other episodes as well!

Tangentially related to this episode, would be curious to get your takes on data informed decision making on a more individual level. To me, it feels like most companies optimize their individual career ladders based on making data informed decisions, but in practice (from what i’ve experienced and seen at least) the “opposite” of making gut-based or instinct based decisions leads to usually a better outcome (assuming the gut or instinct is well tuned and fits nicely for the domain of problems being solved). Seems like an interesting dichotomy to me. 🧐

[hamlim]

Enjoyed the most recent episode, something i’ve struggled with in the past on the docs as code topic is the difference between iteration speed and review criteria (for lack of a better phrase) between code and docs. For example, often at larger companies there’s limited deploy windows, with docs living in the same repo as the code, that means often you can’t ship changes to the docs when those limited deploy windows come around. Similarly for review workflow, often docs PRs need to sit around and go through the same PR review process (hopefully on a well oiled team this wouldn’t be too bad, but sometimes it can take a bit to get the change reviewed).

Unrelated to that topic, was curious on y’all’s take on working on side projects while you are also working full time. Not sure if you already covered this topic in a different episode. Do you enjoy working on a side project, if so how do you keep yourself motivated to keep working on it?

[Cooperbuilt]

@hamlim another great comment! We've hit critical mass now and we will definitely be doing an episode going through your comments in depth.

[hamlim]

Looking forward to it!

[MikeCharpin]

Hey guys, took a break from podcasts for awhile but hearing the opening theme song this morning had me grinning ear to ear.

I loved this latest episode on speedrunning a business. The speedrunning framework really resonated with me—it's a simple and elegant way to put structure around how I already approach projects. I also appreciated hearing about your development process from start to finish. As a new dev trying to figure things out and build my own projects, it’s encouraging to see how similar our paths are. Your experience with tech stacks, like starting with Next.js and switching to Vite with ShadCN and Supabase, aligns with my own experience, which feels like validation that I’m on the right track. This episode has been one of the most impactful for me in my journey to break into the industry. With so many development podcasts working in the weeds about certain tech or soft skills, hearing how experienced devs talk about the full development process from a higher level without being flippant is great. I also ran into some snags setting up Supabase but I just thought it was my inexperience but hearing that you guys also ran into similair problems aleviates a big chunk of my imposter syndrome.

Thanks for the inspiration, and keep up the great work!

[helloitsjoe]

Hey @MikeCharpin, glad you're back, and glad to hear we could alleviate the imposter syndrome (I often feel your pain)... I hope things are going well!