PowerView API // Shade capabilities table

[andrewfg]

I am a code contributor for the openHAB binding for Hunter Douglas PowerView shades (see info below).

• User Documentation
• Binding Code on GitHub

Just as you guys have, we are also facing the issue of how to fine tune the binding functionality and UI to match the physical capabilities of the different types of Hunter Douglas shades. As a result of extensive Googling of shade JSON payloads, and developer repositories on GitHub (including yours), I was able to build the following (tentative) table of shade type attributes versus capabilities attributes. And I am pleased to (hereby) share it with you.

=> Any further inputs or corrections would be very much appreciated - especially from @sander76 and (perhaps) @kingy444

[sander76]

That's looking good ! Many thanks for this. Also your repo looks very well documented. Better than mine ! ;-)

I used to be working on the European Powerview team as a technical product manager. That's why it was easy for me to get a lot of info of the internals of the system. Unfortunately for this project I am no longer involved in PowerView.

Going through the list see my remarks below:

Silhouette: Can move and tilt-at-bottom Twist (or double roller): Can move and tilt-at-bottom (doesn't really tilt though, but has 2 pieces of fabric with bands of transparent and non-transparent fabric which run in front of each other and depending on position opens or blocks the view.) The vertical products (Vertial Slats Left/Right/Split stack): Can move and tilt-anywhere (180) Curtain (left/right/split) stack : move only I am not sure at which product "Vertical Tilt 180" refers to. Maybe a duplicate of one of the other vertical products ?

That's about it I guess. Sander.

[andrewfg]

^ Many thanks for the information. If I get any updates from others, then I will post them here too.

[andrewfg]

PS I got the capabilities descriptions here

[andrewfg]

Just for info: here are the Shade Types and Shade Capabilities in code. => If anyone has additions of correc6tions to this list, please feel free to post the information here!

[pessorrusso]

"Silhouette" can also be type 18

example: {"id":11895,"type":18,"capabilities":1,"batteryKind":2,"smartPowerSupply":{"status":0,"id":0,"port":0},"batteryStatus":3,"batteryStrength":162,"roomId":18036,"firmware":{"revision":2,"subRevision":2,"build":2767,"index":9},"name":"TWFzdGVyIDE=","groupId":9889,"positions":{"position1":0,"posKind1":3}},

[andrewfg]

"Silhouette" can also be type 18

@pessorrusso many thanks for the feedback; I will update the table above.

[carpaij]

@andrewfg The capabilities of type 6 'Duette' is indeed 0. It's a regular bottom up behaving screen.

[andrewfg]

@carpaij many thanks for the confirmation.

[nixpanic]

As mentioned in the home-assistant community, I have (horizontal) Venetian blinds of Type 51.

This might be the same as Type 62?

https://github.com/sander76/aio-powerview-api/blob/89711e2a0cb4640eb458767d289dcfa3acafb10f/aiopvapi/resources/shade.py#L235

[andrewfg]

@nixpanic many thanks for the feedback.

as mentioned in the home-assistant community

Concerning your request on that home-assistant thread.. Unfortunately I cannot solve your request directly. However I can tell you that on openHAB we have already implemented support for dual motor shades (i.e. those with independent rail position and tilt actions, or those with top down and bottom up rail positions). And if any of the home-assistant developers want to "borrow" from that code, they can see it HERE.

might be the same as Type 62?

Indeed. I had already picked up type 51 from that thread. You will be able to see the latest version of my ShadeCapabilitiesDatabase starting at line 59 in the source code below..

openHAB Shade Capabilities Database

[sander76]

@nixpanic Just checking: they can move and tilt independently from each other ?

[nixpanic]

@nixpanic Just checking: they can move and tilt independently from each other ?

Yes, attached to the ceiling:

• the bottom of the shade can move down/up
• at any up/down position, it is possible to tilt in any direction

[jeffdeal]

I have Hunter Douglas "Vignette" Modern Roman Shades with Duolite that report as type 65, and I don't see that in your table. These shades are essentially an inner and outer shade on the same roller. When both shades are down a room-darkening panel blacks out the room. When the blackout shade is raised, light filters through the Roman shade.

If you defined 100% as completely closed and 0% as completely open, 75% would have the room darkening shade halfway up, 50% would be the darkening panel all the way up but Roman shade down, 25% would be the Roman shade halfway up.

I also have Silhouette shades that report as type 23. These raise and lower and can tilt when all the way closed.

I'd be happy to help improve this integration if I can.

[andrewfg]

@jeffdeal many thanks for the feedback. I think we already have the type 23 shades covered. But the type 65 is an interesting new one. And I have some questions about it, so that we can understand more fully.

1. From your description it sounds like the shade has two motorised rails. With fabric extending from the top of the window to the rail at the bottom. Is that correct?
2. On your remote control, is it possible to operate both rails fully independantly? i.e. is it possible to have the back rail fully up and the front rail fully down AND vice versa? Or alternatively are the rails cross linked so that the back rail cannot move down until the front rail is already fully down, OR vice versa?
3. And/or is there some range limitation, whereby (say) raising the front rail causes the back rail to move up when (say) the front rail would start to rise above the back rail (or vice versa).
4. Do you know what capabilities value, the shade reports?

[jeffdeal]

1. The Vignette Duolite shades are two shades on one roller. The front shade and back panel cannot operate independently. The back panel will only descend once the front shade is all the way down.
2. Since there is only a single roller, they cannot be operated independently.
3. See this link for a more thorough description of the Vignette Duolite: https://fredericksburgwindowdecor.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/HD_Vignette_Brochure.pdf
4. I'm not sure how to find the capabilities value you reference. The best way I can describe this shade is a bottom-up shade that has two separate panels. This site shows a video of the shade operation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mh27XEQ89BQ

Thanks!

[kingy444]

@jeffdeal do these currently work on HomeAssistant - I don’t recall code well enough to remember if they would or not but from your description they should function as a normal shade all given with some strange positioning based on the percentage value of the blind

I did think if they don’t match a defined type they default to bottom up but could be wrong. I would also assume capability is 0 meaning standard bottom up blind anyway

are you just asking for them to work in general or are you wanting specific functionality? Given there is only one motor and they can’t function independently not sure what we could do there

[andrewfg]

not sure how to find the capabilities value

@jeffdeal could you post the response when you open the link http://(hub-ip-address)/api/shades in a browser?

[andrewfg]

I added type 65 to my openHAB Shade & Capabilities Database with the provisional capabilities:0 value; but @jeffdeal it would be really great if you could confirm (or deny) that.

[andrewfg]

^ Actually, looking at the capabilities table, I think that yours will have capabilities:8 but I would still appreciate the confirmation..

[jeffdeal]

I believe 8 will be correct for this shade - lift only Duolite operation.
CONFIRMED as 8 with the API call in the browser that you provided. Thanks!

[andrewfg]

If you defined 100% as completely closed and 0% as completely open, 75% would have the room darkening shade halfway up, 50% would be the darkening panel all the way up but Roman shade down, 25% would be the Roman shade halfway up.

@jeffdeal many thanks for the info about the capabilities. Do you also confirm that the above is an exact description of the rail positions? Do you therefore have any thoughts about how one would model this behaviour in a UI in an ideal world? For instance, perhaps having two sliders where the first one controls the front shade (UI slider 0..100% maps to raw position 0..50%), and the second slider controls the blackout (UI slider 0..100% maps to raw position 50..100%), and it’s operation is disabled and it’s position displays as “N/A” whenever the position of the first UI slider is less than 100%. Or something like that?

[jeffdeal]

Hi, I was just using the percentage descriptions to try to describe the way these shades work. In the official Power View app, the UI shows the shade and the back panel as separate entities. But as previously described, they cannot operate independently. The shade has to be all the way down before the back panel will come down.

For example, if I have the shade halfway up, by definition the back panel must be all the way up. In the UI, if I ask to put the back panel halfway down, the shade has to close first, then the back panel will come down to the requested position. If HA can replicate that functionality it would be consistent with the official app.

The Silhouette shades (type 23) are shown similarly in the UI. On the left side is the shade position, and the right side are the vanes. The shade must be all the way down to operate the vanes. If the shade is down and the vanes are open, and you want to have the shade 50% up the vanes have to close first, then the shade will travel to the requested position. I'll try to attach a screen shot of the way the shades show in the app:

These are the Vignette Duolite:

These are the Silhouette:

[andrewfg]

@jeffdeal thanks for the screen shots. Does it work at all in HA at the moment? And if so, what do you actually see in HA in the following cases?

1. Front shade fully up
2. Front shade half down
3. Front shade fully down, back shade fully up
4. Back shade half down
5. Back shade fully down

[andrewfg]

@jeffdeal as a better alternative (in particular if it does not work for you at all in HA at the moment), can you please post the results of moving the shades to each of the 5 cases mentioned above, and then loading this url http://[hub-ip-address]/api/shades/[shade-id] in your bowser? To be specific I would like to see the 'positions' fragment, as in the example below, in its entirety i.e. position1, posKind1 -- plus also position2, posKind2 if they are present.

{
  "shade": {
    "id": [shade-id],
    "type": [65],
    "capabilities": [8],
    "batteryKind": 2,
    "smartPowerSupply": {
      "status": 0,
      "id": 0,
      "port": 0
    },
    "batteryStatus": 3,
    "batteryStrength": 170,
    "roomId": 32072,
    "firmware": {
      "revision": 1,
      "subRevision": 8,
      "build": 1944
    },
    "motor": {
      "revision": 51,
      "subRevision": 51,
      "build": 11825
    },
    "name": "U2hhZGUgMg==",
    "positions": {
      "posKind1": 1,
      "position1": 65534
    },
    "signalStrength": 4,
    "groupId": 39466
  }
}

[jeffdeal]

Yes, these shades show up in HA and I can do some rudimentary control like open and close. There is an attribute called "position" that varies from 0 to 100 where 0 is fully closed and 100 is fully open. There are up, down, and stop controls available, plus a slider that shows and can control the position.

However, this has no effect on the back panel. Home Assistant seems unaware of the position of the back panel. Setting position to "closed" only closes the front shade.

Here's what the entity card of Home Assistant shows when I click on it:

[andrewfg]

@jeffdeal that is really interesting; but it opens more questions than giving answers; so I think it would be very interesting to see the 'positions' values of the five cases mentioned above.

[jeffdeal]

Thanks for providing the method of finding the position values. I had missed that before I sent my previous response.

Here is what the shade reports from the hub at each of the requested positions. These are the Vignette Duolite shades, type 65:

Front shade fully up: position1: 65535, posKind1: 1 Front shade half down: position1: 32339, posKind1: 1 Front shade down, back up: position1: 0, posKind1: 1 Back shade half down: position1: 33464, posKind1: 2 Back shade fully down: position1: 0, posKind1: 2

ALSO - if you start with the shade and back panel fully down, and raise only the back panel, you get the following:

position1: 65535, posKind1: 2 (equivalent to position1: 0, posKind1: 1)

It's apparent that if posKind1 is 2, the position1 value is referring to the back panel, and if posKind 1 is 1, position1 is referring to the front shade. Position values are ranging from 0 to 65535, with 0 being closed and 65535 being open.

The Silhouette shades with tilt (type 23) are following the same type of pattern. When posKind1 is 1, the position1 value refers to the vertical position of the shade, where 0 is closed and 65535 is open. Tilt is a little different, though: for tilt the posKind1 value is 3, and the position1 values go from 0 (closed) to 32767 (open).

Thanks again!

Jeff

---

From: Andrew Fiddian-Green @.> Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2022 3:55 PM To: sander76/aio-powerview-api @.> Cc: jeffdeal @.>; Mention @.> Subject: Re: [sander76/aio-powerview-api] PowerView API // Shade capabilities table (Issue #16)

@jeffdealhttps://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjeffdeal&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4506ebe344f84ee4c8db08d9dde987a1%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637784817334354249%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=KbpTkZ8h8fcjzTOmCPCLqTQup3oiP4npnv6pJVFrd0g%3D&reserved=0 that is really interesting; but it opens more questions than giving answrs; so I think it would be very interesting to see the 'positions' values of the five cases mentioned above.

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[andrewfg]

@jeffdeal That's perfect!

As you say, the functionality of type:65 capabilities:8 shade seems to be analogous to the regular 'bottom up / tilt when closed' shades when the shade is fully down, except that

1. At this point the posKind value is 2 (secondary shade) instead of 3 (tilt / vane), and
2. The maximum position value of the secondary shade is 64k rather than 32k (90 degree tilt vs 180 degree)

Many thanks for your support!

[andrewfg]

BTW I am working on the assumption that the above logic must apply also to shades having capabilities:9 ('Duolite Lift and Tilt') i.e. shades with BOTH a blackout shade AND a tilt anywhere function -- see video..

private static final Map<Integer, Capabilities> CAPABILITIES_DATABASE = Arrays.asList(
// @formatter:off
    new Capabilities(0).primary().tiltOnClosed()                      .text("Bottom Up"),
    new Capabilities(1).primary().tiltAnywhere()                      .text("Bottom Up Tilt 90°"),
    new Capabilities(2).primary().tiltAnywhere().tilt180()            .text("Bottom Up Tilt 180°"),
    new Capabilities(3).primary().tiltOnClosed()                      .text("Vertical"),
    new Capabilities(4).primary().tiltAnywhere().tilt180()            .text("Vertical Tilt 180°"),
    new Capabilities(5)          .tiltAnywhere().tilt180()            .text("Tilt Only 180°"),
    new Capabilities(6).primary()                                     .text("Top Down")                 .primaryStateInverted(),
    new Capabilities(7).primary()                         .secondary().text("Top Down Bottom Up"),
    new Capabilities(8).primary()                                     .text("Duolite Lift")             .withBlackoutShade(),
    new Capabilities(9).primary().tiltAnywhere()                      .text("Duolite Lift and Tilt 90°").withBlackoutShade(),
// @formatter:on
    new Capabilities()).stream().collect(Collectors.toMap(Capabilities::getValue, Function.identity()));

[trullock]

I have Silhouette (type 23) blinds which support an arbitrary tilt angle when "closed".

in Home Assistant using the built-in integration which I believe uses this library, I have no control over the tilt (angle or a binary open/close). All I can do is raise or lower the blind.

Am I missing something, or is this not implemented?

If I manually send a cover.set_cover_tilt_position to my blind entity, nothing happens.

I can see this:

class Silhouette(ShadeBottomUpTilt):
    shade_types = (shade_type(23, "Silhouette"),)

    async def tilt_close(self):
        return await self.move({ATTR_POSKIND1: 3, ATTR_POSITION1: MIN_POSITION})

    async def tilt_open(self):
        return await self.move({ATTR_POSKIND1: 3, ATTR_POSITION1: 32767})

in resources/shades.py but thats about it.

Happy to contribute and test, if I can get some pointers on what the current expected state of things are, or if I'm just being an idiot and missing the controls in HA somehow...

Thanks!

Update

I'm not sure if this is a complete coincidence or not, but after sending the cover.set_cover_tilt_position to the blind, it was completely screwed up and needed a 6s reset. It wouldnt respond properly to app, remote or manual commands, it just jittered. My other two blinds which I didn't send the command to were unaffected. I will retest this, but after I can get some advice from you guys as I don't want to permanently knacker it

Update 2

Here's the JSON for my shade:

{
            "id": 16402,
            "type": 23,
            "batteryStatus": 3,
            "batteryStrength": 150,
            "roomId": 35745,
            "firmware": {
                "revision": 1,
                "subRevision": 8,
                "build": 1944
            },
            "motor": {
                "revision": 0,
                "subRevision": 0,
                "build": 279
            },
            "name": "QmxpbmQgMg==",
            "groupId": 7975,
            "positions": {
                "posKind1": 3,
                "position1": 2273
            },
            "capabilities": 1,
            "batteryKind": "unassigned",
            "smartPowerSupply": {
                "status": 0,
                "id": 0,
                "port": 0
            }
        }

I can confirm what @jeffdeal describes about the position settings for the shade and the vanes

[andrewfg]

Silhouette (type 23) blinds which support an arbitrary tilt angle when "closed".

Surely these shades should support tilt at any position, (not just when closed). Or??

[pessorrusso]

Silhouette (type 23) blinds which support an arbitrary tilt angle when "closed".

Surely these shades should support tilt at any position, (not just when closed). Or??

You can adjust the tilt only when fully closed. If you adjust the tilt while it is open the shade will automatically close before being able to tilt.

[trullock]

Silhouette (type 23) blinds which support an arbitrary tilt angle when "closed".

Surely these shades should support tilt at any position, (not just when closed). Or??

what @pessorrusso said.

Is there anything I can do to advance this fix? Let me know how to be helpful 👍

[sander76]

Silhouette (type 23) blinds which support an arbitrary tilt angle when "closed".

Surely these shades should support tilt at any position, (not just when closed). Or??

what @pessorrusso said.

Is there anything I can do to advance this fix? Let me know how to be helpful 👍

Silhouette can only tilt at the bottom. It's the way they are constructed.

[andrewfg]

^ So I am a bit confused: the type:23 shades have capabilities:1 which would imply some different functionality than the base capabilities:0 shades; but you guys are reporting that in reality they have the same tilt on closed functionality, as the base shades. Or?

[trullock]

My JSON reports "capabilities": 1 The whole "blind" can be opened and closed to any arbitrary height. When its fully down, you can then adjust the tilt of the vanes by an arbitrary amount. You cannot adjust the vane tilt in any other position other than fully down.

I can't comment on any other models, as these are the ones I have :)

[andrewfg]

^ Indeed. The behavior is identical to my shades with capabilities:0; Most peculiar..

[trullock]

Does this make it easy to have the tilt exposed to HA for type 23 blinds?

[andrewfg]

Hmm. What I am seeing from my side, is that it SHOULD already be working for you; that is why I am confused.

[trullock]

Maybe I'm being stupid? How do I double check (humor me)

Adding the "cover" to a dashboard or looking via the integrations/devices/entities pages, i only get up/stop/down buttons...

[jeffdeal]

Same here. And in my case, the up/down/stop buttons and reported position values don't always reflect reality. For example, I could have a shade all the way up, but the UI the "down" arrow to close the shade won't be available. I have to hit the up or stop button before the UI enables me to select down.

---

From: Andrew Bullock @.> Sent: Wednesday, February 2, 2022 12:28 PM To: sander76/aio-powerview-api @.> Cc: jeffdeal @.>; Mention @.> Subject: Re: [sander76/aio-powerview-api] PowerView API // Shade capabilities table (Issue #16)

Maybe I'm being stupid? How do I double check (humor me)

Adding the "cover" to a dashboard or looking via the integrations/devices/entities pages, i only get up/stop/down buttons...

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[andrewfg]

^ The thing is .. I have to be honest with you guys .. I don't actually use HA on my system, so I cannot physically look at covers or their buttons. The only thing I can look at is the code, which tells me that the normal HDPowerView 'tiltOnClosed' functionality is implemented in the HA codebase. Could it be that you guys are running an older version of the code?

=> Perhaps @sander76 can advise on this?

[andrewfg]

^ Hmm. Perhaps this code ..

https://github.com/sander76/aio-powerview-api/blob/89711e2a0cb4640eb458767d289dcfa3acafb10f/aiopvapi/helpers/shade_types.py#L59

.. should be updated to this ??

ATTR_TYPES: (44, 23)

[trullock]

Githubs 500ing for me at the mo, hoping this email reply works....

I'm busy for a few days but can debug next week. Do we have a confirmed working in HA blind type I can compare it to?

^ Hmm. Perhaps this code ..

https://github.com/sander76/aio-powerview-api/blob/89711e2a0cb4640eb458767d289dcfa3acafb10f/aiopvapi/helpers/shade_types.py#L59

.. should be updated to this ??

ATTR_TYPES: (44, 23)

[andrewfg]

Do we have a confirmed working in HA blind type I can compare it to?

It seems to be the same as type 44

[andrewfg]

@trullock @jeffdeal can you please advise when you operate the tilt via the remote control, is the range of tilt 180 degrees (closed / open/ closed) or just 90 degrees (open / closed)?

[trullock]

@trullock @jeffdeal can you please advise when you operate the tilt via the remote control, is the range of tilt 180 degrees (closed / open/ closed) or just 90 degrees (open / closed)?

It's ~90

[andrewfg]

Ok, it sounds as though it should have the same functionality as my Type 44 Twist shades..

[jeffdeal]

Tilt on my shades goes between 0 and 90 degrees.

---

From: Andrew Fiddian-Green @.> Sent: Wednesday, February 2, 2022 3:38 PM To: sander76/aio-powerview-api @.> Cc: jeffdeal @.>; Mention @.> Subject: Re: [sander76/aio-powerview-api] PowerView API // Shade capabilities table (Issue #16)

@trullockhttps://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Ftrullock&data=04%7C01%7C%7C15985fcc42034d6f611308d9e68bf62a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637794311065614762%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=u0nZNo2Zh4iqZNpa%2Br23DNFXEDaQvyPZuKpgZ8LeXok%3D&reserved=0 @jeffdealhttps://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjeffdeal&data=04%7C01%7C%7C15985fcc42034d6f611308d9e68bf62a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637794311065614762%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=o9uv%2FmlnKe81IlATKPovghds90944wHgZmw2wyjtFoE%3D&reserved=0 can you please advise when you operate the tilt via the remote control, is the range of tilt 180 degrees (closed / open/ closed) or just 90 degrees (open / closed)?

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[andrewfg]

Ok thanks. I think that the code change that I suggested above might fix it for you both..