Proofread Greek text

[funderburkjim]

@AnnaRybakovaT This issue devoted to proofreading the Greek text in Bopp Sanskrit-Latin dictionary.

[funderburkjim]

@AnnaRybakovaT Instructions are in readme.txt.

The procedure is similar to https://github.com/sanskrit-lexicon/BUR/issues/4.

Note: The first few (5) lines with Greek occur in the front matter. The scanned images are at Bopp Front Matter.

Make a comment here when you've got the 'startup instructions' part done and have started.

Thanks for your help with this, Anna!

[AnnaRybakovaT]

Thanks for your help with this, Anna!

Dear Jim, I have started this task... with pleasure)

[Andhrabharati]

@funderburkjim

Pl. get the Russian (and probably the Slavonic) words also prepared to be checked by @AnnaRybakovaT ; they are very few in count and can be done in "no time"!!

[AnnaRybakovaT]

Dear Jim,

There are some cases where Greek letters mixed with not Greek (j, F). For example: σϳο ἄλϳο-ς Ϝέϱγω The scan has exactly this spelling. I am curious what is it?

[Andhrabharati]

@AnnaRybakovaT

They are Greek only, but are 'ancient'!!

Pl. see these-- https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CF%B3 and https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digamma

[funderburkjim]

Let @AnnaRybakovaT and @Andhrabharati decide how to handle the questions regarding Greek text.

There are 39 <lang n="Slavonic"> and 26 <lang n="russian"> . No doubt @AnnaRybakovaT can proofread these words that use the Cyrillic alphabet.

[AnnaRybakovaT]

They are Greek only, but are 'ancient'!!

Many thanks for explanation!!!!

[AnnaRybakovaT]

Dear all, I have noticed one issue regarding letter ϱ with spiritus asper and spiritus lenis (ῥ and ῤ). As I see, those diacritic signs take place after ϱ:

kzuD

ϱ̔ίπτω (line 14928)  Is it ok? or should I correct all such cases by this way (to put diacritic signs above ϱ): ῥίπτω

[Andhrabharati]

@AnnaRybakovaT, As I understand, the dual-forms of various Greek letters are used in different works (CDSL lexical works)-- β (U+03B2) | ϐ (U+03D0) ε (U+03B5) | ϵ (U+03F5) ; MW has used ϵ, but the present CDSL data has it as ε throughout!! θ (U+03B8) | ϑ (U+03D1) Θ (U+0398) | ϴ (U+03F4) κ (U+03BA) | ϰ (U+03F0) π (U+03C0) | ϖ (U+03D6) ρ (U+03C1) | ϱ (U+03F1) σ (U+03C3) | ς (U+03C2) φ (U+03C6) | ϕ (U+03D5)

I had broadly taken that they are just script-preferences by different authors, and have no big difference technically.

Also I think the rough-breathing mark (spiritus asper [ʻ]) and the soft-breathing mark (spiritus lenis [᾿]) could go with either form of each of these letters (wherever applicable).

I thought we should preserve the forms as seen in those printed dictionaries; and hence used the forms that are in these works, while filling those gaps (except the ϵ in MW).

Finally, I had interpreted BOP to have used the character 'ϱ' for rho. ----------------------------- @funderburkjim, do you think we should approach Jonathan for final judgement?

[Andhrabharati]

BTW @AnnaRybakovaT , I have noticed that your main point is about the diacritic mark being not above the ϱ, but is after the ϱ!

This is just a font specific issue, and here are some sample fonts--

Same as a pdf-- Diacritic mark wrt the letter.pdf

So, I would suggest that you retain these characters as typed by me.

[funderburkjim]

approach Jonathan?

@Andhrabharati sure -- Just direct a specific question/comment to @jmigliori

[funderburkjim]

ε (U+03B5) | ϵ (U+03F5) ; MW has used ϵ, but the present CDSL data has it as ε throughout!!

@Andhrabharati Let me know if you decide I should change to ϵ in cdsl mw.

[Andhrabharati]

@funderburkjim I did so in my current reworking, and guess you could also change it in the cdsl mw.

[Andhrabharati]

approach Jonathan?

@Andhrabharati sure -- Just direct a specific question/comment to @jmigliori

@funderburkjim

I gave my stand in the second post above; and here is the screenshot of CDSL search having OSI font as the default font for non-Skt. text--

Do you still think that we need Jonathan's opinion? [Other fonts cannot be forced on the web-results of CDSL texts; and any other usage is surely user-specific and not to be worried upon much!!]

[jmigliori]

BTW @AnnaRybakovaT , I have noticed that your main point is about the diacritic mark being not above the ϱ, but is after the ϱ!

This is just a font specific issue, and here are some sample fonts--

Same as a pdf-- Diacritic mark wrt the letter.pdf

So, I would suggest that you retain these characters as typed by me.

I agree with this. For the dictionaries I worked on I would always just use the variant of the letter that was on the page.

[Andhrabharati]

Thank you @jmigliori, for the quick response/resolution!!

[AnnaRybakovaT]

So, I would suggest that you retain these characters as typed by me.

Thanks a lot for so detailed explanations! Sure, I will retain these characters.

[AnnaRybakovaT]

Dear Jim, The file change_1.txt is ready.

1) Could you help me to find some scanned pages of ADDENDA (after page 407)? I have to check 5 more words: gr. ἔχις gr. ὠμός slav. НИЗ slav. БѢГѪ slav. aБΪЕ

2) There are some words with the character "ᴕ", I see this letter by this way ꙋ

slav. ЖИВꙋ (line 20949)

ВЕЗꙋ (line 44785) Ϲꙋ (line 51414) I suppose it is correct but I think better to note the mark ꙋ 3) I am not sure but maybe we have to correct some more cases below: ``` line 17857 attenuato α in {%v.%}) probably "{%v.%"} is Greek letter "υ" line 26262 mutato υ in {%p%} sicut e. c. in zend. probably "p" is Greek letter "ϱ̔" line 26336 mutato {%v%} in μ probably "v" is Greek letter "υ" line 14179 СϱБДЬЧЕ probably has to be "СϱБДЬЦЕ" ```  As I see "Ч" is using for other letter (the first ne in this word) 

[Andhrabharati]

@AnnaRybakovaT

Here are the Addendum pages of Bopp, as asked by you- BOPP_Addenda.pdf

There are some words with the character "ᴕ", I see this letter by this way ꙋ ... I suppose it is correct but I think better to note the mark ꙋ

Yes, ꙋ is the Cyrillic letter to be used in those places.

line 17857
attenuato <lang n="greek">α</lang> in {%v.%})
probably "{%v.%"} is Greek letter "υ"

Yes, Greek υ should be here.

line 26262
mutato <lang n="greek">υ</lang> in {%p%} sicut e. c. in zend.
probably "p" is Greek letter "ϱ̔"

In fact, it's the other way round! the Greek υ should also be Roman v here.

line 26336
mutato {%v%} in <lang n="greek">μ</lang>
probably "v" is Greek letter "υ"

The letter v appears to be Roman only.

line 14179
<lang n="Slavonic">СϱБДЬЧЕ</lang>
probably has to be "СϱБДЬЦЕ"

Is it the small letter с (Cyrillic es, U+0441) or the Cap. letter С (Cyrillic Es, U+0421) here ? And I guess the penultimate letter is closer to the у (Cyrillic u, U+0443) than the other letters you mentioned. In fact, seen that my file data has the у only!

[Andhrabharati]

@AnnaRybakovaT

I had went through your changes_1.txt file (as I got some spare time now and the file seemed to be small enough).

And, here are my observations against 4 entries--

; <L>146<pc>006-a<k1>ati<k2>ati 947 new {%ant%} super, goth. {%and%} partim ad {#ati#} <lang n="greek">αντί</lang> partim ad

AB: (in new) <lang n="greek">αντί</lang> is to be <lang n="greek">ἀντί</lang> ------------------------ ; <L>1979<pc>069-a<k1>kalya<k2>kalya 11138 new e <lang n="greek">ϰαλλόσ - ϰαλλίων, ϰάλλιστος, ϰαλλι-, ϰάλλος</lang> - per assimilationem e <lang n="greek">ϰαλϳος</lang> sicut <lang n="greek">ἄλλος</lang>

AB: (in new) <lang n="greek">ϰαλλόσ - ... ... </lang> is to be <lang n="greek">ϰαλλός - ... ...</lang> ------------------------ ; <L>5309<pc>224-a<k1>pota<k2>pota<h>1 32727 new {%pauta-s%} ovum; gr. <lang n="greek">πω-λος</lang>; lat. {%pullus, pûsus%}; goth. {%fula%}

AB: (in new) <lang n="greek">πω-λος</lang> appears to be <lang n="greek">πῶ-λος</lang> ------------------------ ; <L>5756<pc>241-a<k1>brU<k2>brU 35331 new etiam gr. <lang n="greek">ΡΈΩ, ϱ̔ῆμα, ϱ̔ήτωϱ</lang>, abjectâ litterâ initiali si-

AB: (in new) <lang n="greek">ΡΈΩ, ... ...</lang> appears to be <lang n="greek">ΡΈΩ, ... ...</lang> [I guess ΡΈΩ is the capital lettered form (Upper Case) of ϱέω (rather, of ρέω).]

Pl. review these 4 entries once.

[Andhrabharati]

; <L>5309<pc>224-a<k1>pota<k2>pota<h>1
32727 new {%pauta-s%} ovum; gr. <lang n="greek">πω-λος</lang>; lat. {%pullus, pûsus%}; goth. {%fula%}

@AnnaRybakovaT The next edition of Bopp (1867) has the word clearly showing what I mentioned above--

@funderburkjim Speaking of this 1867 ed., I wonder what made the earlier edition being selected for digitisation, when a later (revised and much enhanced) edition is very much existing. [same case with Wilson's dictionary, which has a 3rd ed. ]

Probably, @maltenth could throw some light on this point.

[AnnaRybakovaT]

-

Here are the Addendum pages of Bopp, as asked by you

Thanks a lot!!!

[AnnaRybakovaT]

The next edition of Bopp (1867) has the word clearly showing what I mentioned above-

That is true, the scanned version has at least 2 differences:

[AnnaRybakovaT]

AB: (in new) <lang n="greek">ΡΈΩ, ... ...</lang> appears to be <lang n="greek">ΡΈΩ, ... ...</lang> [I guess ΡΈΩ is the capital lettered form (Upper Case) of ϱέω (rather, of ρέω).]

Could you kindly double check this entry. As I see in the file change_1.txt has correct spelling ΡΈΩ (with Έ)?

[AnnaRybakovaT]

Dear all,

Please check the file change2.txt

$ python diff_to_changes_dict.py temp_bop_1.txt temp_bop_2.txt change_2.txt
5 changes written to change_2.txt

[Andhrabharati]

The next edition of Bopp (1867) has the word clearly showing what I mentioned above-

That is true, the scanned version has at least 2 differences:

Yes, I had already posted the scan-portions from 2nd ed. (of my copy) which show these quite clearly.

And here is the scan-portion of the HW ati from the 3rd ed (1867)

[Andhrabharati]

AB: (in new) <lang n="greek">ΡΈΩ, ... ...</lang> appears to be <lang n="greek">ΡΈΩ, ... ...</lang> [I guess ΡΈΩ is the capital lettered form (Upper Case) of ϱέω (rather, of ρέω).]

Could you kindly double check this entry. As I see in the file change_1.txt has correct spelling ΡΈΩ (with Έ)?

Sorry, I had missed it in a hurry; your file does show the tonos mark!!

[AnnaRybakovaT]

Is it the small letter с (Cyrillic es, U+0441) or the Cap. letter С (Cyrillic Es, U+0421) here ? And I guess the penultimate letter is closer to the у (Cyrillic u, U+0443) than the other letters you mentioned.

I have no ideas about small letter с or the Cap. letter С, but looks like the Cap. letter С. Regarding the penultimate letter, I suppose it is CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER TSE (Cyrillic Ц, U+0426)

[Andhrabharati]

One of the addl. detail given in the 3rd ed. is roman transliteration of Slav. words; and here is the portion for the word СϱБДЬЦЕ

Thus, it is the Cyrillic tse = Roman z; and also all those Cyrillic letters appear to be of small case (as seen in the Roman transliteration).

[funderburkjim]

@Andhrabharati @AnnaRybakovaT

Is the proofreading of this issue complete? Ready for me to install?

[gasyoun]

СϱБДЬЦЕ

impossible, and no need for capital letters, it's сьрдьце

[Andhrabharati]

I do not recall where it was, but, I had seen (when I was working on the Bopp's text) that Old Slavonic writing system had, at one time, used mixed Greek script letters and Cyrillic script letters.

And the Bopp's Glossarium print did use the Greek rho undoubtedly.

Also I noticed that my Bopp file has only the small letters for all Slavonic words throughout, but Jim's derived version has all CAPS, which is seen in Anna's proofing work!!

[Andhrabharati]

Just noticed that Bopp 3rd ed. has the р (Cyrillic) whereas the 2nd ed. appears to have ϱ (Greek)!

And @gasyoun is closer (but still not fully correct!!) to the word than me or @AnnaRybakovaT ; the word in line 14179 is сръдьце (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/срьдьце)

I used Ponomar Unicode font and see сръдьце as

is what the 3rd ed. of Bopp is having

as against the 2nd ed. of Bopp that has

Probably we should check all the Slavonic words looking at the 3rd ed. once!! @AnnaRybakovaT , willing to do this?

[funderburkjim]

Probably we should check all the Slavonic words

Is the Greek proofreading done? If so (i.e. change_1.txt and change_2.txt have all greek corrections), then I will install those corrections.

Let's start another issue just devoted to Slavonic corrections. --- the questions seem quite different from the Greek.

@AnnaRybakovaT @Andhrabharati Can we finish Greek and start slavonic separately?

[Andhrabharati]

Yes, probably that's the way to handle this, @funderburkjim !

The Greek proofing may be taken as "done".

[funderburkjim]

@Andhrabharati @AnnaRybakovaT

Greek corrections now installed. Thanks to all!

[Andhrabharati]

@funderburkjim

I will be posting the Slavonic strings file shortly here itself.

[funderburkjim]

I am making an 'issue5'. Please post Slavonic strings there