[BUG-234962] problem with CASPERVEND

[sl-service-account]

What just happened?

Hi, So I got linden staff to tell me to contact CASPER to solve my problem. SO WHY Linden have acquired it, if you won't doing the CSR ??? https://community.secondlife.com/blogs/entry/11637-linden-lab-acquires-caspertech-in-second-life/

What were you doing when it happened?

I was doing an EVENT, and that stupid system has refunded all of my customers without any reason

What were you expecting to happen instead?

To have my moneys, I lost 4K !

Other information

yes, we're in 2024, it's times to fix all of your problems

Original Jira Fields

| Field | Value | | ------------- | ------------- | | Issue | BUG-234962 | | Summary | problem with CASPERVEND | | Type | Bug | | Priority | Unset | | Status | Closed | | Resolution | Duplicate | | Created at | 2024-01-08T11:09:56Z | | Updated at | 2024-01-25T18:33:29Z | ``` { 'Build Id': 'unset', 'Business Unit': ['Platform'], 'Date of First Response': '2024-01-12T15:38:29.648-0600', "Is there anything you'd like to add?": "yes, we're in 2024, it's times to fix all of your problems", 'ReOpened Count': 0.0, 'Severity': 'Unset', 'System': 'SL Viewer', 'Target Viewer Version': 'viewer-development', 'What just happened?': "Hi, So I got linden staff to tell me to contact CASPER to solve my problem.\r\nSO WHY Linden have acquired it, if you won't doing the CSR ???\r\nhttps://community.secondlife.com/blogs/entry/11637-linden-lab-acquires-caspertech-in-second-life/", 'What were you doing when it happened?': 'I was doing an EVENT, and that stupid system has refunded all of my customers without any reason', 'What were you expecting to happen instead?': 'To have my moneys, I lost 4K !', 'Where': 'Reborn Event\r\nAnd you need to list CASPER on your jira, wth', } ```

[sl-service-account]

Gwyneth Llewelyn commented at 2024-01-12T21:38:30Z

While LL has acquired Casper, it is (allegedly) still run as an independent subsidiary of Linden Lab, under its own brand and its own team: the Casper company was not merged with Linden Lab.

As such, it is perfectly normal for Casper's tech support to be independent from Linden Lab's tech support, and that LL's tech support team is unable (due to lack of training/knowledge — not due to lack of willingness!) to provide any support on Casper products whatsoever.

In fact, you're assuming that Linden Lab acquired Casper because they somehow wanted to do their customer support! This, however, is just your {}assumption{}: there are a trillion valid reasons for LL to acquire Casper, none of which directly related to their customer support. And, of course, since the details of the acquisition are part of a private trade deal between both parties, we're not aware of the exact terms of acquisition, beyond what was actually made public.

As such, if Linden Lab's tech support tells you to bring your issue to Casper's tech support, because they're unable to help you (while Casper's own team has all the tools and the knowledge to be able to help you), then you should consider that as LL's official stance regarding Casper's products and services: what you get (or lose!) through Casper should be dealt with Casper.

As for being 2024 and "time to fix all your problems", well, I'm pretty sure that Linden Lab would love to fix all the 234962 bugs (and counting) that have been submitted here, but the day has only 24 hours and there is a limit to how much the entire LL team can do to fix things. One thing is certain: they are not staring into their computer screens and idly twiddling their fingers doing nothing. They are doing lots of things to make your life (or your Second Life at least) better all the time — even if you're unaware of that.

And, btw, the same applies to the Casper employees as well.

So, aye, it's 2024, but saying that it's 2024 is not like having a magic wand that you can wave around and all problems will disappear.

That said, you certainly deserve your 4k back, if it's Casper's fault. But that's between you and {}Casper{}; LL has no role in that. Except, of course, if that loss was deliberately and intentionally caused by Casper in order to deprive you of your honestly-earned money — in that case, LL may (at their discretion) review the transaction, possibly revert the refunding, and have some harsh words with Casper's team.

Nevertheless, I find all of the above to be extremely unlikely.

What is likely is that a) either the Casper Vendor was used in a way that it misbehaved — possibly due to a bug — which is unheard of, but might have been possible; or b) there was a glitch in the SL Grid which triggered something that should never been triggered, and, in that case, it should be easy enough for Casper to track it down, get in touch with the appropriate team at Linden Lab, and revert the refunding (or at least compensate you for the loss).

But right now there is nothing that Linden Lab can {}do{}. Raising the issue in Jira is not going to help {}you{}. Instead, make sure you talk to Casper's team {}first{}, and follow their instructions.

Disclaimer: The above should not be considered either LL's official stance on the subject, neither legal advice; consult a real lawyer if you need further explanations!

[sl-service-account]

CaithLynnSayes commented at 2024-01-16T11:54:20Z

Siri, whats the difference between acquired and merged? :D

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Gwyneth Llewelyn commented at 2024-01-19T12:30:47Z

Thanks — I stand corrected and should have been slightly more precise with my wording, since it looks like today it's common practice to label "mergers" as "acquisitions" (and vice-versa): https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/021815/what-difference-between-merger-and-acquisition.asp

There is a difference, though, when the company is indeed acquired as a wholly-owned subsidiary: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/whollyownedsubsidiary.asp

Under the latter — which I'm assuming it's the form Linden Lab has chosen for the terms of acquisition — both companies (may) retain their individual culture, management, and branding. There are just certain advantages for the companies, for instance, the owning company accepting all the risk (since they own 100% of the subsidiary), but, in return, providing access to tools/frameworks, management strategies, and so forth, which they would be unable to do if the company were merely a "partner".

A concrete example: Casper might have wanted to have a much tighter integration with some of LL's systems. However, there is a limit to what you can do with LL's APIs. You cannot go further or deeper — because LL is also under certain legal constraints (such as how money flows from residents to the real world, and vice-versa, thus limiting how the resident's Linden dollar account is accessed — which, in turn, also limits what Casper can do and what they cannot do).

By turning Casper into a wholly-owned subsidiary, it means that Casper's tools and technology can integrate with LL's at a much deeper level, since Casper's employees will be under the same strict NDAs regarding the trade secrets used by LL in its core technology, and Casper, as an organisation, will be subject (or entitled!) to the same regulatory limitations as LL themselves.

It has also several other advantages (both fiscal, legal, and operating) — with a few disadvantages (ultimately, Casper's CEO will be subject to their Board's decisions, and Casper's Board is 100% Linden Lab, so, in practice, Casper can only do things as far as Linden Lab allows them to do) — and obviously the public is not made aware of those private agreements. What we can say is that the assumption that Casper's tech support was "taken over" by Linden Lab is not {}mandatory{}. In fact, unless {}explicitly told us by Linden Lab themselves{}, our assumption should be quite the reverse: as long as Casper retains its brand and corporate identity, as well as its own channels of communication with their customers, and announces them as such, we, the public, should assume that Casper does their own tech support — not Linden Lab.

We cannot even say if Casper has actually delegated its tech support to Linden Lab employees, {}but keeping it under its own brand{}. Even if that's the case — and that's a bold assumption! — it does not mean that all of a sudden Linden Lab will start taking tech support requests on their communication tools. In fact, unless told otherwise, we (the public) must assume that Casper's tech support and communication is handled by Casper, while LL's support is handled by LL. It is not for us to say which is which. They might funnel all requests from different sources into the same unified back-end system. But that's all irrelevant for {}us{}. And that was actually my point: if you have an issue with Casper and require their tech support, talk to Casper's representatives — no matter if the company is owned by Linden Lab, Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, or the Communist Party of China. None of that is relevant if the point is essentially {}fixing a problem with Casper's products{}.

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Dan Linden commented at 2024-01-25T18:33:30Z

This issue is being copied to Canny. Please find your issue at https://feedback.secondlife.com/web-features/p/problem-with-caspervend