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[BUG-40672] [BENTO] Avatars/Attachment with different display behavior on Bento Viewer #12316

Open sl-service-account opened 7 years ago

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

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Original Jira Fields | Field | Value | | ------------- | ------------- | | Issue | BUG-40672 | | Summary | [BENTO] Avatars/Attachment with different display behavior on Bento Viewer | | Type | Bug | | Priority | Unset | | Status | Needs More Info | | Resolution | Unresolved | | Reporter | Whirly Fizzle (whirly.fizzle) | | Created at | 2016-10-11T05:38:31Z | | Updated at | 2017-07-07T15:51:27Z | ``` { 'Business Unit': ['Platform'], 'Date of First Response': '2016-10-13T02:39:31.941-0500', 'ReOpened Count': 0.0, 'Severity': 'Unset', 'System': 'SL Viewer', 'Target Viewer Version': 'viewer-development', 'What just happened?': 'Filling in...', 'What were you doing when it happened?': '...', 'What were you expecting to happen instead?': '...', } ```
sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Whirly Fizzle commented at 2016-10-11T06:46:28Z

As discussed on the forum thread, Henri from CoolVL Viewer already spoke to the avatar creator who said that there are other avatars affected by this bug. I left the creator Dreamcrawler Martin an IM pointing to this JIRA issue & asked him to add any other repro avatars he knows about.

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Henri Beauchamp commented at 2016-10-13T07:39:32Z

@Dan Linden

Err... I'm a bit puzzled, here. Why did you change this JIRA status to "Needs More Info" ?... You got all the info we could possibly gather, even with a repro mesh to test the viewer code against !

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Whirly Fizzle commented at 2016-10-13T07:49:53Z

I'm guessing it's so the creator (or others) could comment. Comments are locked to everyone apart from filer & triagers on an issue in the Accepted state.

This bug's been imported as MAINT-6814

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Henri Beauchamp commented at 2016-10-13T08:43:57Z

I'm guessing it's so the creator (or others) could comment. Comments are locked to everyone apart from filer & triagers on an issue in the Accepted state.

Ah, that would be a explanation (and I didn't know the JIRA became so rigid and closed...).

This bug's been imported as MAINT-6814 "Permission Violation" I can't even view a single "MAINT" JIRA issue, despite having been a viewer developer for 9 years already...

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

polysail commented at 2016-10-14T09:43:43Z

Just for public documentation purposes. Vir said he looked in to this and apparently the mesh asset file itself contains "invalid entries" of some sort ( I'm paraphrasing here ). The old viewer ignored those entries / defaulted them to ones that made sense, whereas the bento viewer displays it differently. Theoretically re-uploading the content with corrected values would fix it.

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Vir Linden commented at 2016-10-14T13:25:49Z, updated at 2016-10-14T13:30:05Z

The problem here is that some of the sub-meshes contain bad joint position overrides for various joints that the model is rigged to. For example, the werewolf has 6 different joint positions defined for the left ear attachment point. Before bento, these joint position overrides were not applied, because we were enforcing a 20-joint minimum - if a sub-mesh was rigged to fewer than 20 joints, then it was not treated as rigged and the joint positions were ignored. For bento, we have relaxed this restriction to make it easier to create meshes that affect only part of the avatar - for example, you could have a set of mesh wings that only affects the position of the wing joints, or a mesh arm that only affects the position of the arm joints. Unfortunately, this means that any model that had bad but non-visible joint positions defined may now appear distorted. There is no obvious way to change the viewer behavior to fix this, without also breaking some bento models and making the extended skeleton less useful. The content could be fixed by re-uploading it with the bad joint positions removed, or by adding an animation to fix the joint positions after the fact. Of course, if the model does not require joint positions at all then the option could also simply be un-checked at upload time.

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Henri Beauchamp commented at 2016-10-14T14:15:38Z

Thanks for the analysis of this issue: has the creator been made aware already, or should I point him here ?

Just an idea, however: won't it be possible to add a flag in the uploaded mesh meta data, to indicate that it was uploaded from a Bento viewer ? In this case, when a mesh gets downloaded by a Bento viewer, a check could be made for that flag: if absent, then invalid joints in the mesh would be treated (ignored) like they were in non-Bento viewers... Of course, this would break current Bento meshes (but after all, Bento is still in RC, and many such meshes were already broken due to skeleton/joints changes in Bento).

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Whirly Fizzle commented at 2016-10-14T15:29:11Z

Henri, can you let the creator know? I did contact him about this JIRA issue but he didn't get back to me. He may not even have seen this JIRA issue. You said on the forum thread that the creator told you other creators work was also affected by this problem too. Do you have any idea how much content will be affected by this?

Vir, have you decided yet if this is a "wont fix"?

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Vir Linden commented at 2016-10-14T18:50:56Z

Whirly, this hasn't been classified as anything yet. Henri, we will try to contact the creator.

If anyone knows of other affected content, please let us know; it would help to know more about the scope of the problem.

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

veryvicki commented at 2016-10-17T01:12:34Z

I have a Rigged Mesh teddy that renders correctly on top, but the bottom half is inverted. Here are the details:

Creator: Auston Harbour Store Name: [Haste] http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Offbeat/66/184/23 Item Name: Coy Item Description: Rigged Mesh Teddy

The bottom half of the item is inverted, extending back up over the wearer's head. This happens on all standard attachment points.

Whirly Fizzle was able to repro on the SecondLife Bento viewer.

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Whirly Fizzle commented at 2016-10-17T01:26:06Z

VeryVicki's repro item is here on the marketplace: "Haste Coy" - http://bit.ly/2ed7dct Any colour will reproduce the bug.

I have attached images to this issue showing the problem.

Testing system:

Second Life 5.0.0.320160 (Second Life Release)
Release Notes

You are at 24.0, 33.0, 21.9 in Doris located at sim10255.agni.lindenlab.com (216.82.49.177:12035)
SLURL: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Doris/24/33/22
(global coordinates 247,576.0, 310,817.0, 21.9)
Second Life Server 16.09.23.320027
Retrieving...

CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770K CPU @ 3.50GHz (3491.96 MHz)
Memory: 16268 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows 7 64-bit Service Pack 1 (Build 7601)
Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
Graphics Card: GeForce GTX 750/PCIe/SSE2

Windows Graphics Driver Version: 21.21.0013.7306
OpenGL Version: 4.5.0 NVIDIA 373.06

J2C Decoder Version: KDU v7.2
Audio Driver Version: FMOD Ex 4.44.31
LLCEFLib/CEF Version: 1.5.3-(CEF-WIN-3.2526.1347-32)
Voice Server Version: Vivox 4.6.0017.22050

Packets Lost: 65/2,749 (2.4%)
October 16 2016 18:25:50
sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Whirly Fizzle commented at 2016-10-17T01:41:26Z, updated at 2016-10-17T01:48:35Z

A lot of content from [Haste] is affected by this bug. MP store: https://marketplace.secondlife.com/stores/118301

Two more examples.

1) [Haste] Strings Bikini Demo: https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Haste-Strings-Bikini-Demo/6304654 Fig 7 - Strings bikini rendering as expected on LL default release. Fig 8 - Strings Bikini broken on the Bento-RC.

2) [Haste] Micro Bikini Demo: https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Haste-Micro-Demo/6277906 Fig 9 - Micro bikini rendering as expected on LL default release. Fig 10 - Micro bikini broken on Bento RC

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

polysail commented at 2016-10-17T02:08:10Z, updated at 2016-10-17T10:14:24Z

Okay ~!! So at this point it's pretty clear it's not just one or two meshes that might be broken by this.

However, I can't help but notice that mesh LLM files have a date-of-upload specified in the file spec. ( "date" – LLDate (as LLSD, seconds since epoch UTC) of upload, filled in by simulator)

So! Is it theoretically possible to just make all mesh uploaded after "bento release date" render one way, and all mesh prior to that date render the old way? And kind of ~ just not worry about this? No need to remove any functionality at all?

It's not a perfect fix, but in the interest of having our cake and eating it too while minimizing the damage this seems like it would be the best short-cut solution.

Whatever tool was used to generate these sorts of hacky multiple joint position errored content will obviously have to be updated. But I suspect that will basically just be Avastar, since there aren't many other tools out there for SL specifically. Though it would be nice to check for sure so the appropriate party can be informed.

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Whirly Fizzle commented at 2016-10-17T02:09:51Z

I left Auston Harbour (the [Haste] creator a message explaining this problem and a link to this JIRA issue. He was offline though.

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Henri Beauchamp commented at 2016-10-17T13:09:15Z

However, I can't help but notice that mesh LLM files have a date-of-upload specified in the file spec. So! Is it theoretically possible to just make all mesh uploaded after "bento release date" render one way, and all mesh prior to that date render the old way? And kind of ~ just not worry about this? No need to remove any functionality at all? It's not a perfect fix, but in the interest of having our cake and eating it too while minimizing the damage this seems like it would be the best short-cut solution.

Please, see the proposal I made in my comment above (dated 14 Oct): a flag in the meta data, indicating the mesh was uploaded with a Bento viewer, would be, IMO, a better solution than comparing dates. Another possibility would be to increment the mesh format version for mesh uploaded with Bento viewers (in this case, old viewers will not render the newer mesh: it should however be verified that it doesn't make them crash because of bugs in the version detection).

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

polysail commented at 2016-10-17T21:27:59Z, updated at 2016-10-17T21:38:38Z

Oh ~ I thought the LLM file format was a static unchanging thing, much like the internal anim format is, hence my date notion. If adding a flag to the mesh file format is indeed a practical solution, or basing it off version number ~ then it would be a superior one. Mine was simply for in the case that it was not, since dates can be retroactively tracked, whereas I'm not sure mesh version numbers were incremented in a meaningful fashion recently.

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Vir Linden commented at 2016-10-18T17:01:34Z

Thanks for mentioning the [Haste] asset issues. This is a different issue; the models I've looked at so far don't even define any joint positions, so it's not a problem with bad values there. Probably related to changes in our logic for handling invalid joint references.

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Whirly Fizzle commented at 2016-10-18T18:40:27Z

@Vir Do you want a new JIRA issue filed for the Haste bug?

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Vir Linden commented at 2016-10-18T18:43:59Z

Already filed as MAINT-6841, thanks.

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Whirly Fizzle commented at 2016-10-18T20:25:04Z

Just saw the Haste bug fix go in: https://bitbucket.org/lindenlab/bento-box/commits/834aaf9de5bc79b16c3c5e2963ea99aa184042e0

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Vir Linden commented at 2016-10-19T12:26:47Z

Haste bug fix will be in the next RC update for Bento.

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Vir Linden commented at 2016-10-19T12:28:12Z

Again, we urgently need to know about any broken content. If you know of problem cases other than the original werewolf or the various [Haste] assets, please let us know.

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

ZacharyZemsen commented at 2016-10-21T06:16:15Z, updated at 2016-10-21T06:21:25Z

I've found a similar problem on the arms and chest of the 1st Act Garou Male avatar: https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/1A-Garou-Male-Starter-Kit/6866528 (I have not tried it on the female version.)

Most noticeably it affects the shoulders, arms, chest, and hips.

Here are screenshots taken in the current non-bento viewer (4.1.1.320331): https://puu.sh/rQjxH/a127c4b1da.png https://puu.sh/rQjxS/e60217a289.png

Then viewing in Bento (5.0.0.320815) after first logging in: https://puu.sh/rQjxM/2ae94d3f9f.png https://puu.sh/rQjxE/91b0b15faf.png Might not be noticeable at first, but the arms are slightly distorted.

And finally after clicking "Reset Skeleton": https://puu.sh/rQjxL/3586867c5c.png https://puu.sh/rQjxI/d06bc468fb.png This is where it's the most obvious.

(PS: I've never posted in JIRA before, so if linking screenshots this way is frowned upon, please let me know. I couldn't find any guidelines about that.)

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

polysail commented at 2016-10-21T07:20:45Z

I'm able to reproduce that "scrunching" on 'First act" werewolves too, but it reverts to looking proper the moment I cam away and back again.

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Whirly Fizzle commented at 2016-10-21T10:24:50Z

@ZacharyZemsen Linking screenshots like that is just fine :) You can also attach images directly to a JIRA issue by using More Actions -> Attach files option at the top of the issue. Don't use the More Options -> Attach Screenshot option - it's broken on this version of JIRA. Also if you are not the filer of the JIRA issue, you may not see the Attach Files option when the JIRA issue has certain statuses. tl/dr - what you did above is ok :)

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Whirly Fizzle commented at 2016-10-21T11:44:01Z

I can also reproduce the shoulder deform on the 1st Act werewolf on Second Life 5.0.0.320815 (Second Life Release). Zooming camera out & back did not fix the problem for me.

I didn't buy the avatar (expensive & no demo) but there was a shopper wearing one at the store when I went to look :)

On the Bento-RC: http://prnt.sc/cx2jny On default release, Second Life 4.1.1.320331 (Second Life Release): http://prnt.sc/cx2lf4

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Whirly Fizzle commented at 2016-10-21T12:34:03Z

Another repro werewolf avatar that has bulging eyes on Bento only. Weredog Hell Series by JackRipper666 https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/WEREDOG-HELL-SERIES/5484636

Note that this is the repro avatar from BUG-8616 @Vir - if you still have the original "BUG-8616 repro avatar" box from BUG-8616, that will reproduce it. I placed the "BUG-8616 repro avatar" box out at http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Testylvania%20Sandbox/125/183/22 again. Look for http://prnt.sc/cx3ab2 Just unpack to inventory and the replace outfit.

On Bento Second Life 5.0.0.320815 (Second Life Release)

On default release Second Life 4.1.1.320331 (Second Life Release)

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Whirly Fizzle commented at 2016-10-21T21:32:29Z, updated at 2016-10-21T21:35:51Z

Regarding the 1st Act Garou Male avatar from above, it isn't just the shoulders that deform when resetting skeleton, the whole head deforms and the eyes are no longer in their sockets. Before resetting skeleton: http://prnt.sc/cxaob3 After resetting skeleton: http://prnt.sc/cxap1x

If you need details of exactly what's worn in those images (muzzle etc), contact Sovereign Engineer (Alchemy viewer dev). His avatar is one of the 1st Act rigged mesh avatars though.

Zooming camera out & back doesn't fix it once you did a reset skeleton. I had to relog to see his avatar correctly.

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

polysail commented at 2016-10-22T01:18:17Z

My 'zoom out' and zoom in again was unloading the avatar from memory. Effectively a full reload. I should have specified "Cam out until it unloads from direct memory."

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Whirly Fizzle commented at 2016-10-22T21:08:53Z, updated at 2016-10-22T21:21:22Z

@Vir You may want to check https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Skadi-Sergal-Armor-Small/6502780

One if the Firestorm beta testers [~Chaser.zaks] reported this armor broken on the Firestorm Bento build the beta testers have. The armor renders correctly on the latest Bento-RC viewer and is also fixed on Firestorm Bento after merging in the latest changes, so I'm presuming it's the same bug as the [Haste] assets.

Buggy on older Firestorm Bento build: http://prnt.sc/cxmvrj Impressively broken, it covered half the region!

Fixed on Firestorm Bento merged up to Bento-box tip: http://prnt.sc/cxnwo7

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Willow Wilder commented at 2016-10-25T04:34:20Z, updated at 2016-10-25T04:42:46Z

Two Firestorm beta testers as well as myself are seeing "buggy eyes" on certain Mesh Project heads. I looked at each of the avs wearing TMP using the current SL Bento Release Candidate, the FS Bento test build as well as FS Release 4.7.9. If someone else could put eyes on this (no pun intended), it would be appreciate. :-)

[20:39:54] sythril Resident: #TheMeshProject (BETA) Head(m) - Classic (Deluxe) {Creator} [head] buggy eyes on SL and FS Bento see https://gyazo.com/5158a1c66b3b7cd869ca2ef3a5f22068 but not on FS Release 4.7.9. see http://prnt.sc/cykpuj

[20:43:42] Linegod Resident: #TheMeshProject (BETA) Head(m) - Anime (Basic) {Creator} [head] <<---no buggy eyes on SL or FS Bento or on FS Release 4.7.9. see http://prnt.sc/cyksbu

[21:00:42] Viviana285 Resident: #TheMeshProject (BETA) Head(f) - Fierce (Basic) RETROFIT {Creator} [head] buggy eyes on SL or FS Bento see http://prnt.sc/cykuzn and http://prnt.sc/cykznx but not on FS Release 4.7.9. see http://prnt.sc/cykvv3

All avs were wearing TMP mesh body, but note that each av was wearing a different head type.

The Shops (BETA) aka as The Mesh Project http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/The%20Shops/132/129/4

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Vir Linden commented at 2016-10-25T12:20:13Z

The "weredog hell" model has buggy eyes because of a new feature that allows the eye size slider to work with rigged meshes. Previously there was no way to use the sliders to control eye size on a non-system eye model. The problem can be fixed by editing the shape and changing the eye size to the default value of 50. The other bug-eyed models may have the same problem.

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Vir Linden commented at 2016-10-25T14:20:42Z

Willow, do you have marketplace links or other ways to find the particular models you are referencing? I'd like to make sure I'm testing the right things.

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Whirly Fizzle commented at 2016-10-25T14:39:43Z

@Vir TheMeshProject heads can only be got from the inworld store. You have to go to http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/The%20Shops/132/129/4 and get the free shopping HUD & style HUD and find the heads in the shop. Good luck, because you'll need it ;) (it's a rather convoluted shopping experience).

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Vir Linden commented at 2016-10-25T17:59:31Z

Looked at demo versions of some of the mesh heads. These don't include the eyes. Testing with some eyes bought from the same shop (which are system eyes) I don't see any problems.

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Vir Linden commented at 2016-10-25T18:01:38Z

The Skadi Sergal small armor does seem to be fixed in the current bento build. I don't see any issues.

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Vir Linden commented at 2016-10-25T19:22:56Z

Re: the Garou werewolf: I've done a fair amount of testing with this model using bento and default viewers, and I'm having a hard time seeing any difference. Could someone tell me in excruciating detail exactly what's wrong in the bento case? Annotating a screenshot would be even better.

I'll look into the reset skeleton issues, but that's a different question. Here I'm just wondering about the default behavior when you first wear the model - how is the bento case different?

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Whirly Fizzle commented at 2016-10-25T20:37:47Z

I don't have the Garou werewolf to test (there's no demo). I only saw that mesh deform after a reset skeleton. Before a reset it looked the same on Bento as in default release as far as I could tell.

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Willow Wilder commented at 2016-10-26T01:05:14Z

@Vir Linden Thanks for looking into that. I don't use the TMP system myself. This was observed on others. Of the two examples I provided with buggy eyes, both have since told me they were wearing system eyes also purchased from TMP.

I have since done some testing with other mesh head demos and eyes (rigged, unrigged and system) and the inconsistencies between Bento and non-Bento viewers does appear to be with not only the eye size, but the eye depth as well.

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

ZacharyZemsen commented at 2016-10-26T05:11:02Z

@Vir Linden I was worried the difference would be hard to see on the pre-reset Garou, it's a very slight change. The only part that gets distorted is the upper arm, and not by much. I only noticed it at first due to arm attachments I was using on it.

Here is a comparison of screenshots with an armband attached. I hope this clears it up? https://puu.sh/rVUsU/b5690078a9.png

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

polysail commented at 2016-10-26T09:38:59Z

@Lucia This JIRA has been set to permanently "Needs more Info" until Bento release, to allow the comments section to be open to all.

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Lucia Nightfire commented at 2016-10-26T10:57:43Z

Sorry about that!

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Vir Linden commented at 2016-10-26T12:40:21Z

OK, re: the eye depth thing, if there's a specific avatar/configuration that shows the problem it would help to diagnose it. I don't have a test case for it right now.

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Vir Linden commented at 2016-10-26T12:47:15Z

Re: reset skeleton on the Garou model, this seems to be working as designed. Joint position depends on a sequence of events including building the initial skeleton, applying the sliders, applying any joint positions defined in the meshes, and running various animations. Resetting the skeleton starts the avatar state back at the beginning and ends up after joint positions have been applied. Depending on the timing of the associated animations, this may not put you into the desired avatar state. For example, if there's an animation that gets applied when a rigged mesh object is first attached, that animation won't get replayed after reset skeleton. To make a model work well with reset skeleton, the creator should make sure that the joint positions defined with the meshes are consistent with the desired starting pose for the model.

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Whirly Fizzle commented at 2016-10-26T13:30:43Z, updated at 2016-10-26T13:34:01Z

Re: The TMP head eye popping bug. I'm wondering if it's this: BUG-37764 The most noticeable deform when this happens is the eyes popping out of the head. I don't know how to reproduce this problem at will, it just happens sometimes on the Bento viewers.

@Vir - Dan has a copy of the full outfit from BUG-37764 if you need it. The head is rigged mesh and the eyes are unrigged mesh.

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Vir Linden commented at 2016-10-26T14:33:27Z

If I go from the Garou Werewolf to the BUG-37764 model, I can pretty consistently get the model in a messed up state. Bald head, eyes in the wrong place, distorted chest. However, this repros on the default viewer as well. So far I haven't found a repro for a bento-specific issue with just the eyes.

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Vir Linden commented at 2016-10-26T14:35:15Z

From the messed up state, reset skeleton fixes everything. Of course, that's only available in bento; in the default viewer, it just stays messed up.

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Whirly Fizzle commented at 2016-10-26T16:36:17Z

Re: The TMP head eye popping bug.

I can reproduce the problem when wearing rigged eyes.

This is the dumped shape I am wearing in those images: http://pastebin.com/SVkNbTL8

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Vir Linden commented at 2016-10-26T19:14:38Z

Hi Whirly, Thanks for passing that along. I've tried a few different settings, including trying to reproduce your eye size, eye depth, and head length values from the above paste. The only difference I've seen so far is the known issue with eye size, so if I change the eye size slider to 50, then the bento and default viewer images match. If you get a chance, could you try that and tell me how it works for you?

sl-service-account commented 7 years ago

Whirly Fizzle commented at 2016-10-26T20:46:16Z

@Vir Confirmed. As long as eye size is set to 50, the rigged eyes look the same on the Bento & the non-Bento viewers.

This will be a fun transition until everyone is on Bento :D