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[BUG-9209] Unable to move an outfit to another folder - recent code changed removed this ability. #16732

Open sl-service-account opened 9 years ago

sl-service-account commented 9 years ago

Steps to Reproduce

Unpacking items from Marketplace and creating outfits.

Actual Behavior

Create or select any already created outfit, such as is created by the save functions in the Appearance window.

Attempt to move the outfit to some other folder.

This ability was removed with a recent LL push of bug fixes, because it was causing a problem. However, the inability to do so is also causing problems.

Expected Behavior

I saw a note somewhere from a Linden that the ability to move outfits was not intended to be allowed. I'm not able to find the exact, original reference at this time, but please see below for what I am able to find. The note on it was "Also removed some wrong code for drag-and-drop corresponding to a case that's not allowed anyway."

By disallowing this behavior as unintended, there must be one of two possible cases, both of which are seemingly unintended:

1 - The user interface behavior of the Outfits folder is different than all other folders. All other folders are able to accept sub-folders and the folder-based organization of their contents. This difference in behavior is the current condition, with the ability to move outfits removed.

2 - The user must create their own folders and them manually paste-as-links their Current Outfit contents into them inside of Outfits folder. This negates the intended use of Appearance window.

Therefore, I request a reconsideration of the ability to move outfits into folders. If this requires other bugs to be fixed or features to be considered, please understand that the inability to move outfits is extra difficulty to work around.

Other information

Please see:

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-7678 https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-7338 http://jira.phoenixviewer.com/browse/FIRE-15603 http://hg.phoenixviewer.com/phoenix-firestorm-lgpl/rev/d37c4d46c6ed (I believe this is the c++ update which removed the ability to move outfits)

I personally encountered this issue with the new beta version of Firestorm viewer, version 4.7.1.45325 . Upon discussion with the Firestorm crew, I found out that the code change originated with Linden Labs, thus there is some cross-tracking of the issue between both.

Links

Related

Original Jira Fields | Field | Value | | ------------- | ------------- | | Issue | BUG-9209 | | Summary | Unable to move an outfit to another folder - recent code changed removed this ability. | | Type | Bug | | Priority | Unset | | Status | Accepted | | Resolution | Accepted | | Reporter | Ferris Greymoon (ferris.greymoon) | | Created at | 2015-05-05T13:25:19Z | | Updated at | 2021-01-07T15:55:53Z | ``` { 'Business Unit': ['Platform'], 'Date of First Response': '2015-05-05T09:55:26.587-0500', 'How would you like the feature to work?': '.', "Is there anything you'd like to add?": 'Please see:\r\n\r\nhttps://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-7678\r\nhttps://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-7338\r\nhttp://jira.phoenixviewer.com/browse/FIRE-15603\r\nhttp://hg.phoenixviewer.com/phoenix-firestorm-lgpl/rev/d37c4d46c6ed (I believe this is the c++ update which removed the ability to move outfits)\r\n\r\n\r\nI personally encountered this issue with the new beta version of Firestorm viewer, version 4.7.1.45325 . Upon discussion with the Firestorm crew, I found out that the code change originated with Linden Labs, thus there is some cross-tracking of the issue between both. ', 'Severity': 'Unset', 'System': 'SL Viewer', 'Target Viewer Version': 'viewer-development', 'What just happened?': 'Create or select any already created outfit, such as is created by the save functions in the Appearance window.\r\n\r\nAttempt to move the outfit to some other folder.\r\n\r\nThis ability was removed with a recent LL push of bug fixes, because it was causing a problem. However, the inability to do so is also causing problems.\r\n\r\n', 'What were you doing when it happened?': 'Unpacking items from Marketplace and creating outfits.', 'What were you expecting to happen instead?': 'I saw a note somewhere from a Linden that the ability to move outfits was not intended to be allowed. I\'m not able to find the exact, original reference at this time, but please see below for what I am able to find. The note on it was "Also removed some wrong code for drag-and-drop corresponding to a case that\'s not allowed anyway."\r\n\r\nBy disallowing this behavior as unintended, there must be one of two possible cases, both of which are seemingly unintended:\r\n\r\n1 - The user interface behavior of the Outfits folder is different than all other folders. All other folders are able to accept sub-folders and the folder-based organization of their contents. This difference in behavior is the current condition, with the ability to move outfits removed.\r\n\r\n2 - The user must create their own folders and them manually paste-as-links their Current Outfit contents into them inside of Outfits folder. This negates the intended use of Appearance window. \r\n\r\nTherefore, I request a reconsideration of the ability to move outfits into folders. If this requires other bugs to be fixed or features to be considered, please understand that the inability to move outfits is extra difficulty to work around. ', 'Why is this feature important to you? How would it benefit the community?': '.', } ```
sl-service-account commented 9 years ago

Whirly Fizzle commented at 2015-05-05T14:55:27Z

LL commit which removed the ability to drag folders into My Outfits or My Outfits subfolders: https://bitbucket.org/lindenlab/viewer-release/commits/d37c4d46c6ed1116830042951d637de569d7b068

I guess this issue should be a feature request to add back the old functionality of being able to create subfolders within saved outfit folders and not a bug report.

Being able to create outfit subfolders should never have worked and the fact it was possible for so long was a bug. Unfortunately many people got used to being able to do this and now they are complaining that it is no longer possible.

sl-service-account commented 9 years ago

Whimsical Aristocrat commented at 2015-05-05T15:00:27Z

Absolutely agree Whirly - I think the feature request is the appropriate thing, and if there is some underlying issue caused by creation of sub folders, that issue should be raised as a defect and addressed in some other way than barring sensible folder organisation, which is natively available in almost every other part of the system. I'm not sure why "it should never have worked" might be true, but it sure worked very well :))

sl-service-account commented 9 years ago

Ferris Greymoon commented at 2015-05-05T16:55:19Z

Catching up on the comments. Thank you all for reading and the analysis. Let me go see what I can do on the new fields added by Alexa.

sl-service-account commented 9 years ago

Ferris Greymoon commented at 2015-05-05T17:17:03Z

(I didn't see new fields in the main JIRA view. Adding information to comments to get things on the record while I sort out being a noobie here. Again, thank you for the quick review and follow up!)

** Why is this feature important to you?

In my SL time, I visit many different areas and communities and events. I also have a home, and visit friends' homes. For many of these places, I have outfits created, such as some swim trunks for the beach, a rave dance outfit, a formal dance outfit, and so on. I also have some for sci-fi settings, fantasy settings, low-lag and low-script outfits. Multiply all of those by the basic bodies I have and that becomes a lot to organize. Finding such an outfit in a flat folder can be difficult.

By having folders and sub-folders inside of my Outfits system folder, I've been able to organize all of these very nicely. In my particular case, I have a folder for each of my main body types, then a list of folders for things like casuals, beach wear, formals, sci-fi, etc. I also have folders with "add-ons" for things like a weapon for a combat or adventure sim, a dance hud, rave lights and you-name-it.

I use these extensively, replacing, adding, and removing by right-click menu in Inventory. I make most of these with the Appearance window, which has the very nice feature of storing attachment order of system-body layers (clothes, etc) and also avoiding duplicated links. Sometimes I edit outfits by deleting or adding links.

In almost every case, an outfit behaves exactly like a plain folder, except for the two properties that it's editable with Appearance window and it has a special icon. I can move these outfits, just like folders, to any part of my organized folder structure that I wish. This works very well for me.

** How would it benefit the community? .

Based upon discussion with others affected by this change, I'm certainly not the only one who uses this feature. In fact I believe I'm one of the simpler users, and we do truly have some outfit-making, outfit-organizing geniuses among us.

I believe this would benefit the community by allowing the Outfits system folder to work consistently with other folders which allow sub-folders.

I have heard in the course of this discussion that there was a crash-causing issue related to sub-folders inside Outfits. I do not know the scope of that, except that I've personally not experienced it. It's possible that there are deeply underlying issues here of which I'm unaware. Stability is of course very important and must be considered!

** How would you like the feature to work?

The most basic model would be to undo the prohibition on moving an outfit, while exterminating the bug(s) causing crashes.

If the crash issue is not easily resolvable, I would propose a checkbox option to enable it in Preferences, with a note that the feature may cause instability and should be used with caution. I believe various versions of SL viewer and TPVs have had such user-enabled options for things like multiple sessions, hardware graphics, texture fetching and so on.

A thorough examination of the feature may discover that an enhanced Appearance window might be needed, which understands what to do with sub-folders.

Alternatively to all of the above, it may be easier to have an option to create an outfit or to create a folder of links from Appearance. That is to say, the save button might sensibly have "Save", "Save As", and "Save Links As" options.

sl-service-account commented 9 years ago

Alicia Parrish commented at 2015-05-06T13:30:36Z

Please put the functionality of being able to move Outfit folders into subfolders back in. It helps us long time users with a large number of looks, items, etc. to be more organized. I wholeheartedly echo the sentiments of Ferris Greymoon above!

sl-service-account commented 9 years ago

KylieQuinn commented at 2015-05-10T22:18:30Z

I, as well, agree with what Ferris Greymoon and Alicia Parrish have said. I have my already made outfits sorted into subfolders for season, costume, beach, holiday, etc. not located in the actual Outfits System Folder. I used to be able to move those back in when the season changed, or when a holiday came around, but no longer can move them back. Now I'm having to do it the "old-fashioned" way before we had the Outfits folder. That works, and I suppose I could get used to it, but seems like a step backwards. Thanks for listening. :)

sl-service-account commented 9 years ago

Lexbot Sinister commented at 2015-05-11T15:09:48Z, updated at 2015-05-11T15:10:06Z

I have used sub-folders in the outfits folder to sort my outfits according to each roleplay character i play. If i undersand this right, this is no longer possible? How is one supposed to sort their outfits?

Being able to sort outfits into sub-folders means i can both easily find what i need, and also bulk-delete outfits i no longer need. I can't imagine going back to having all outfits sitting in one long row, sorted by name.

sl-service-account commented 9 years ago

Ferris Greymoon commented at 2015-05-13T02:12:58Z

Saw the discussion at http://pastebin.com/euX0ky9S .

Thank you very much for bringing this up. I appreciate the representation and the great ideas brought up there.

How may I help with any part of this?

sl-service-account commented 9 years ago

Vir Linden commented at 2015-05-13T13:33:58Z

I understand the desire to keep outfits in sub-folders for organization. Trying to understand what the usage pattern was before the code change. Could someone walk me through a specific sequence of steps that used to work for doing this? Does the resulting inventory structure look like say "My Outfits -> Holiday Outfits -> Santa Claus"?

sl-service-account commented 9 years ago

Ferris Greymoon commented at 2015-05-13T15:54:41Z

Vir,

Thank you for the follow up!

Some examples from my inventory.

Root directory Outfits... (currently moved to "# My Outfits" as a workaround - I use "#" as a leading character to keep folders near the top. I use ">" as a leading character to note that I have things inside a directory that I should remember to choose from. I use "+" as a leading character for folders of links to choose from rather than a holistic outfit. I put a "*" at the end of outfit names that look especially good or that I'm getting ready for an upcoming event. I'm not entirely consistent, but often working on it.)

JIRA won't retain space indentation so I'm using ] to denote subdirectory indentation. Sorry for the resulting symbol salad.

Outfits ] # Adds ]] > Accessories ]] > Gear ]]] + Swim HUD ]]] + Pencil Buddy ]]] + Anvil Dropper ]]] + Rave Trails ]] > Weapons ] # Coyote ]] > Adventure ]]] Camp Zombie Operator ]]] Quarter Mile City ]]] MST3K Jumpsuit ]] > Beachwear ]]] Blue Shorts ]]] Red Shorts ]]] ZAF Speedo * ] # Human ] # Dalek ] Mods in progress

... and so on. In the example above, the subdirectories under beachwear and adventure are outfits as created by Appearance window and then moved. Appearance window, for me, is entirely capable of modifying them and re-saving them in any location. Items in Gear are just folders of links I can add and remove from current outfit.

Sometimes I'll create a new outfit with Appearance and save it. The saved outfit could then be moved anywhere, exactly like a folder of links.

Other times I'd modify an outfit or a folder of links by pasting links into it or deleting them. This is pretty handy if I'm adding things to a lot of outfits. For example, when I bought the swim hud, it made sense to put it into all my beach wear outfits. So I simply copied the links to the swim hud and pasted it into each of the pertinent outfits. (This can be done by shift-clicking or control-clicking all the destinations and control-v to paste, bypassing Appearance window.)

Sometimes if I'm doing a lot of pasting links, I'll wear the resulting outfits for a test, and let Appearance save them fresh to remove redundant links.

I always change or add-to outfits from Inventory. For me, Appearance window is only opened to save a whole outfit. This is because I have some sympathetic practice doing so from inventory views in MMO style games. Also, once I have my folder tree open to where it needs to be for what I'm doing, it also tends to be close to where I need to be to change it. For example, battling zombies I'd put on an outfit then choose a weapon from one of my "+" folders. If I want to change weapons I can right click on "# Weapons" and remove-from-current (removing all weapons, and their draw/sling gestures, etc) and then right click on the new weapon I want and add-to-current.

When outfits first came out, I tried to figure out if I could make a link to a whole folder, but that didn't work. The idea being that I could have a folder with all my always-on gestures and one with my always-on hud items, and then I could simply modify those folders without having to modify a bunch of individual outfits. That didn't work. It might or might not make sense in the context of this discussion, so I'm adding the idea as an appendix.

sl-service-account commented 9 years ago

Whirly Fizzle commented at 2015-05-13T20:03:28Z

When outfits first came out, I tried to figure out if I could make a link to a whole folder, but that didn't work.

You can do this.

LL Viewer Advanced -> Debug Settings -> InventoryLinking -> Set to TRUE. Within inventory, right click a folder -> Copy. Right click -> Paste as link where you want to place the folder link.

http://prntscr.com/74vb2e I used folder links all the time, really useful feature.

Firestorm Paste as link is enabled by default. Right click any folder -> Copy. Choose "Paste as link" from context menu.

Cannot currently do this within Outfits folder though on LL viewer/Firestorm 4.7.1 because of the change described in this issue.

sl-service-account commented 9 years ago

Ferris Greymoon commented at 2015-05-13T21:26:37Z

@Whirly: I know what I'll be doing in SL for a while! <3 Thanks!

sl-service-account commented 9 years ago

Whirly Fizzle commented at 2015-05-14T02:46:29Z

@Vir

Could someone walk me through a specific sequence of steps that used to work for doing this?

Lets say I wanted to create some X-mas themed outfits and keep them organised in their own main outfit folder, I would do the following:

The last step is no longer possible. I used an old build (http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Release/3.7.7.289461) to perform those steps.

sl-service-account commented 9 years ago

honri.lefavre commented at 2015-05-14T02:55:30Z

@Vir Could someone walk me through a specific sequence of steps that used to work for doing this? Does the resulting inventory structure look like say "My Outfits -> Holiday Outfits -> Santa Claus"?

YES. Exactly!

sl-service-account commented 9 years ago

Anastasia Horngold commented at 2015-05-14T05:03:36Z

I understand the desire to keep outfits in sub-folders for organization. Trying to understand what the usage pattern was before the code change. Could someone walk me through a specific sequence of steps that used to work for doing this? Does the resulting inventory structure look like say "My Outfits -> Holiday Outfits -> Santa Claus"?

I would do something like that.

Or Avatar A > Tall Version > Mesh Body > Swimsuits Avatar A > Short Version > Basic Body > Miniskirts Avatar B (etc.)

Then there are the odd items that I think of as add-ons to be accessed easily, not full outfits:

Avatar A > All HUDs Avatar A > Mesh Feet and Hands > Regular flesh color Avatar A > Mesh Feet and Hands > Tan flesh color Avatar A > Mesh Feet and Hands > Black nylons

Avatar B > All HUDs Avatar B > Mesh Feet and Hands ...etc.

sl-service-account commented 9 years ago

Snake Daxter commented at 2015-05-14T14:34:44Z

I visit many different areas and communities and events. I also have a home, and visit friends' homes. For many of these places, I have outfits created, such as some swim trunks for the beach, a rave dance outfit, a formal dance outfit, and so on. I also have some for sci-fi settings, fantasy settings, low-lag and low-script outfits. Multiply all of those by the basic bodies I have and that becomes a lot to organize. Finding such an outfit in a flat folder can be difficult.

By having folders and sub-folders inside of my Outfits system folder, I've been able to organize all of these very nicely. In my particular case, I have a folder for each of my main body types, then a list of folders for things like casuals, beach wear, formals, sci-fi, etc. I also have folders with "add-ons" for things like a weapon for a combat or adventure sim, a dance hud, rave lights and you-name-it.

I use these extensively, replacing, adding, and removing by right-click menu in Inventory. I make most of these with the Appearance window, which has the very nice feature of storing attachment order of system-body layers (clothes, etc) and also avoiding duplicated links. Sometimes I edit outfits by deleting or adding links.

In almost every case, an outfit behaves exactly like a plain folder, except for the two properties that it's editable with Appearance window and it has a special icon. I can move these outfits, just like folders, to any part of my organized folder structure that I wish. This works very well for me.

sl-service-account commented 9 years ago

Kyle Linden commented at 2015-05-14T17:51:17Z

Thank you all for the great use cases.

sl-service-account commented 9 years ago

Whirly Fizzle commented at 2015-06-25T16:40:30Z

There is a fix for this in Lion: https://bitbucket.org/lindenlab/viewer-lion/commits/ce00f22299b6df149142a9ac815721cfbcbd2ebf MAINT-5217 FIXED Allow dragging outfit folders to other folders inside 'My outfit'.

I'm not sure if it is working as expected though.

On Lion (built at rev 1976b2d), I am able to drag folders into My Outfits folder. However I cannot drag any folder into a saved outfit folder (the folders with a coathanger symbol) - either a folder from outside of My Outfits or another coathanger outfit folder from within My Outfits - is that expected? I can drag a coathanger saved outfit folder into a non-coathanger folder within My Outfits though.