[BUG-202959] Block ability to change Triangle Limit during mesh upload

[sl-service-account]

How would you like the feature to work?

In the Upload Model (mesh upload) dialog, remove the ability to modify the Triangle Limit for the "Generate" LOD option. In other words, a content creator uploading a mesh can only have "default" LOD settings using the dialog unless they create their own individual LODs as files.

A large number of content creators (including some of the most popular on the grid) do the following:

• Select high detail mesh model
• Set triangle limit for Medium, Low, and Lowest LODs to "1"
• Upload

• Sell their product with a notecard telling users to disable LODs.

  This change disables the ability for people to "disable LODs" at upload easily; it creates two user types: 1) Mesh uploaders without a good knowledge of LODs get the Linden Labs recommended settings (default) 2) Knowledgeable mesh uploaders generally create their own LODs from scratch in their 3d modelling tool and upload each LOD as files.

  Alternately, if disabling the ability to edit the triangle limit isn't preferred, consider putting a "lower bound" on those settings based on the percentage of triangles in the original object. This would stop creators from setting everything to "1 triangle" in an attempt to disable LODs.

  Why is this feature important to you? How would it benefit the community?

  A very large number of content creators, including some of the most popular ones in the marketplace, disable all LODs during upload by setting the triangle limit to '1" in the upload dialog. They do this to keep the land impact of their items artificially low. The problem has gotten so bad that users are forced to increase their LOD settings to "see" sims and users properly. This, in turn, slows down the entire experience.

  Many of the recent items I have purchased come with a notecard telling users to "disable all LODs to see the object properly". While removing a feature is generally not considered a good idea, most knowledgeable content creators already make LODs by hand - 3d tools do a better job at mesh degeneration than the upload dialog.

  I've attached a few real world examples from some of Second Life's most popular creators. It's not limited to rare cases, it's pervasive across the entire grid and incredibly damaging to the entire experience.

Attachments

• Example Notecard from Creator.txt 2018-01-20 12:57:40
• Example Notecard from Creator 2.txt 2018-01-20 12:57:40
• Upload Model.JPG 2018-01-20 12:53:29
• Upload Model 2.JPG 2018-01-20 12:56:07

Links

Related

• [ ] https://github.com/secondlife/jira-archive/issues/14124

Original Jira Fields

| Field | Value | | ------------- | ------------- | | Issue | BUG-202959 | | Summary | Block ability to change Triangle Limit during mesh upload | | Type | New Feature Request | | Priority | Unset | | Status | Accepted | | Resolution | Accepted | | Reporter | Thornotter (thornotter) | | Created at | 2018-01-20T17:44:56Z | | Updated at | 2018-01-31T18:57:03Z | ``` { 'Business Unit': ['Platform'], 'Date of First Response': '2018-01-20T13:27:01.199-0600', 'How would you like the feature to work?': 'In the Upload Model (mesh upload) dialog, remove the ability to modify the Triangle Limit for the "Generate" LOD option. In other words, a content creator uploading a mesh can only have "default" LOD settings using the dialog unless they create their own individual LODs as files.\r\n\r\nA large number of content creators (including some of the most popular on the grid) do the following:\r\n* Select high detail mesh model\r\n* Set triangle limit for Medium, Low, and Lowest LODs to "1"\r\n* Upload\r\n* Sell their product with a notecard telling users to disable LODs.\r\n\r\nThis change disables the ability for people to "disable LODs" at upload easily; it creates two user types:\r\n1) Mesh uploaders without a good knowledge of LODs get the Linden Labs recommended settings (default)\r\n2) Knowledgeable mesh uploaders generally create their own LODs from scratch in their 3d modelling tool.\r\n\r\nAlternately, consider putting a "lower bound" on those settings based on the percentage of triangles in the original object. There is far too much abuse in the current upload dialog.', 'ReOpened Count': 0.0, 'Severity': 'Unset', 'Target Viewer Version': 'viewer-development', 'Why is this feature important to you? How would it benefit the community?': 'A very large number of content creators, including some of the most popular ones in the marketplace, disable all LODs during upload by setting the triangle limit to \'1" in the upload dialog. They do this to keep the land impact of their items artificially low. The problem has gotten so bad that users are forced to increase their LOD settings to "see" sims and users properly. This, in turn, slows down the entire experience.\r\n\r\nMany of the recent items I have purchased come with a notecard telling users to "disable all LODs to see the object properly". While removing a feature is generally not considered a good idea, most knowledgeable content creators already make LODs by hand - 3d tools do a better job at mesh degeneration than the upload dialog. \r\n\r\nI\'ve attached a few real world examples from some of Second Life\'s most popular creators. It\'s not limited to rare cases, it\'s pervasive across the entire grid and incredibly damaging to the entire experience.', } ```

[sl-service-account]

Lucia Nightfire commented at 2018-01-20T19:27:01Z

An alternative could be to not have the uploader reduce upload cost and/or land impact as much as it currently does when any LoD level uses 10% of the tri's as the next highest LoD level or less.

There have already been steps taken to counter raising RenderVolumeLOD Factor beyond reasonable limits in Firestorm which has the majority userbase.

I don't think it is fair to punish all creators for the actions of a few and I believe your claim that "very large number of content creators" is dubious when you only provided notecards from one source.

[sl-service-account]

Whirly Fizzle commented at 2018-01-21T15:25:51Z

Unfortunately it is a large number of creators Lucia. See the comments on BUG-6243.

This problem is what's caused Firestorm to make changes for the next release to nag the user every login if their RenderVolumeLODFactor is set above 4.0 and to reset the users RenderVolumeLODFactor to default every session if they have it set above 4.

I don't agree that the soloution proposed here is the right way to help deal with the problem because there are legitimate uses for changing the triangle limit during upload. The filer is correct though, the ability to change the triangle limit is horribly abused.

[sl-service-account]

Thornotter commented at 2018-01-21T17:31:01Z

I'm a bit torn this this as well - normally I wouldn't ever request this, but in my mind it's to "stop the bleeding" until a longer term solution can be found.

Perhaps the second option I presented is the better one - some sort of realistic, yet flexible, lower bound on the triangle limit based on the number of triangles in the original mesh. If I remember right, the default setting for Medium is 1/3 the number of triangles in the original (0.33333). For example, a lower bound of (0.25 or 0.2) for Medium would provide some flexibility while blocking the "set everything to 1" people. We'd still see some abuse, but at least the uploads would be usable.

[sl-service-account]

polysail commented at 2018-01-21T19:24:24Z, updated at 2018-01-21T19:24:53Z

Unfortunately there are valid reasons to actually reduce your triangle count to 1. Any number of small items that ought to vanish at anything but point-blank range are valid examples. For example if I literally made a mesh fly. My initial proposed idea was to stop rewarding people for going below a certain value though. While this is a change to the accounting system. I believe it would have the desired result.

If I upload a mesh with 63000 HIGH triangles, then there is a predetermined land impact that it cannot cost less than.

To expand upon the example: The 63000 Tri HIGH LOD would have specified minimum Land Impact of: 63000 tri HIGH 21000 tri MED ( 1/3 ) 7000 tri LOW ( 1/3 ) 1400 tri LOWEST ( 1 /5 )

Any triangle values chosen below these marker points do not provide any added land impact savings. You can still set it to be a single triangle, if you think it's appropriate for the object, but you will no longer be rewarded additionally for doing so.

This would encourage people to: 1: Stop making things with such blatantly absurd base triangle counts 2: Stop rewarding bad LOD's 2: Provide an incentive for people to work with the given rubric.

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Beq Janus commented at 2018-01-21T20:17:32Z, updated at 2018-01-21T20:29:51Z

The initial remarks that the lab have made so far with regard to revamping the LI calculation so as to not penalise good LOD behaviour (and reward bad) is indeed to have some kind of "free" budget. The discussions are still all internal so none of us know much about how those experiments are going, but Liz's (polysail's) mechanism has the advantage of not breaking existing content, just not rewarding it.

Removing the ability to generate LOD models as this Jira proposes, would itself be counterproductive, there are many reasons such as those cited by Liz for not doing this and frankly, it would only lead to a rush of half-baked videos teaching people how to make minimal LODs.

I fully support the intent of the OP, but I don't think this proposal moves the game forward far enough to be worth the pain it would cause those who use the tools properly. Moreover, just solving the "minimal LOD" is the start of this battle. Good LOD design needs to focus on well engineered lower LODS that retain volume and form, whilst shedding detail appropriately, only then do you get content that is both efficient and visually appealing. What I would love to see is a complete replacement for the LOD generation library GLOD. It is more than 12 years old now and newer and better methods exist for decimating mesh. Having a tool the generated visually appealing LOD models alongside a revised LI formula that rewarded good design is what we really need.