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Semantic Arts gist upper enterprise ontology
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Differentiate goesToAgent/comesFromAgent and hasRecipient/hasGiver #1152

Open kstudzin opened 1 month ago

kstudzin commented 1 month ago

Modify definitions and add examples

Closes #1024

rjyounes commented 3 weeks ago

Also, I suggest that all 4 properties have a domainIncludes gist:Event

I don't think of Event as the likeliest domain for goesTo/comesFrom.

rjyounes commented 3 weeks ago

This issue has not been triaged yet, and I think as a group we need to come to some understanding of what the differences are meant to be. Moving to draft state.

uscholdm commented 3 weeks ago

Also, I suggest that all 4 properties have a domainIncludes gist:Event

I don't think of Event as the likeliest domain for goesTo/comesFrom.

Its the only one I could think of right away, what are the obvious ones that come to mind for you?

rjyounes commented 3 weeks ago

Its the only one I could think of right away, what are the obvious ones that come to mind for you?

As the definitions say, I think of shipment, package, letter, etc., which we don't have classes for. I don't see any reason that we must have a domainIncludes value, so if nothing fits the bill I'd leave it off.

uscholdm commented 3 weeks ago

As the definitions say, I think of shipment, package, letter, etc., which we don't have classes for. I don't see any reason that we must have a domainIncludes value, so if nothing fits the bill I'd leave it off.

@rjyounes Shipment is an event; if a package or letter goes anywhere, that is an event, which is always a correct way to model a 'going'. One need not always, model the event explicitly. But I cannot think of a single example of using goesToAgent where there is no event going on (so to speak) - can you?

rjyounes commented 3 weeks ago

Oh, I see, I hadn't been thinking of the events - I was thinking of the objects being shipped and delivered. The locution seems odd in ordinary English - "the event of shipping the package goes to Tom" as opposed to "the package goes to Tom." The distinctions you make above between those who handle goods in passing them from the "ultimate" giver to the "ultimate" recipient are clear, but it's not at all clear to me how we decide which set of predicates goes with which. One pair of agents are the "intermediate" givers and recipients, the other are the "ultimate" ones. I have no clue why one is "comesFrom/goesTo" and the other is "giver/recipient." Do you? Do we need to rethink our wording choices?

uscholdm commented 3 weeks ago

Oh, I see, I hadn't been thinking of the events - I was thinking of the objects being shipped and delivered. The locution seems odd in ordinary English - "the event of shipping the package goes to Tom" as opposed to "the package goes to Tom." The distinctions you make above between those who handle goods in passing them from the "ultimate" giver to the "ultimate" recipient are clear, but it's not at all clear to me how we decide which set of predicates goes with which. One pair of agents are the "intermediate" givers and recipients, the other are the "ultimate" ones. I have no clue why one is "comesFrom/goesTo" and the other is "giver/recipient." Do you? Do we need to rethink our wording choices?

Those are all excellent points, the locution is not good- the event does not go to the agent, the package does. But changing the wording will only work if we are rock solid on what we are trying to say - we may not be. Intermediate vs. ultimate may or may not be exactly what we want. There may be too many variations of this. I wonder if anyone ever used the comesToAgent and goesToAgent properties? I wonder if we should just remove them. Maybe a gist dev group discussion?