simgunz / anki-decks_italian-ipa

Anki deck with IPA symbols for phonemes and phones of the Italian language
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Does the Italian IPA include the symbol ɪ? #1

Closed doolio closed 1 year ago

doolio commented 1 year ago

image

It is not included in your deck nor is it included on this wiki page*. However, I see it appear in this IPA translator..

e.g. sarai

*: For that matter ɾ appears in your deck but not on the wiki page.

Thanks for your deck and your time.

simgunz commented 1 year ago

Regarding the ɪ (Near-close near-front unrounded vowel) think it is not present in Italian, I cannot think any word where it is used.

In the Italian wiki page of the Vocale quasi anteriore quasi chiusa non arrotondata it is stated:

In italiano standard tale fono non è presente.

In standard Italian this phone is not present.

Regarding the ɾ (Voiced alveolar tap) to my understanding (and my perception when I say it) it is used in a word like "caro", where the r is not trilled.

In the English wiki page of the voiced alveolar tap the occurrence in Italian is not reported (but probably should be).

In the Italian wiki page of the monovibrante alveolare it is stated:

In italiano tale fono è un allofono di /r/, spesso usato di più della r vibrante stessa. Si pronuncia generalmente quando la r è in posizione intervocalica o non iniziale, ma a volte anche in posizione iniziale.

In Italian this phone is an allophone of /r/, often used more than the vibrating r itself. It is usually pronounced when the r is in intervocalic or non-initial position, but sometimes also in initial position.

Examples: rana /ˈrana/ [rana] - r in initial position is usually trilled scontro /ˈskontro/ [skontro] - in the middle of the word can be trilled pero /ˈpɛːro/ [ˈpɛːɾo] - in the middle of the word (intervocalic) is mono-trilled caro /ˈkaro/ [kaɾo] - same carro /ˈkarro/ [karro] - similar word with long trilled r

The phonemic transcription /x/ IPA is taken from the italian wikitionary.

I think that the presence or not of the ɾ in different IPA notations depends on the fact that some sources uses a phonemic transcription /x/ instead of a phonetic one [x]. Phonemic vs phonetics.

doolio commented 1 year ago

Regarding the ɪ (Near-close near-front unrounded vowel) think it is not present in Italian, I cannot think any word where it is used.

Thank you for the confirmation. In that case, the IPA translator page I linked to is not completely accurate. I'm trying to be as descriptive in my use of IPA as possible and therefore prefer to use the phonetic [x] transcription I will cross check what I have already transcribed against the Italian wikitionary though it tends to use the phonemic /x/ transcription.

e.g. sarei is given as /saˈrɛj/ which I think can still be understood as [saˈrɛj]

simgunz commented 1 year ago

Just another side note, for me the correct IPA of sarei should be [saˈrɛi]. The "i" is pronounced [j] when it appears before a vowel like in "ieri" [ˈjɛːri].

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approssimante_palatale

doolio commented 1 year ago

Thank you for the further clarification.