Occupation of Germany

[simsulla]

1946.1.1 when the game starts, the faith of Germany was largely undecided. So, somethings needs to be done with the end of occupation in Germany. The French where against a reunified Germany - that should be reflected as a game play option for them. Similarly, the Roosevelt initially advocated US zone the be in northern Germany. From the Cairo Conference of 1943 Roosevelt drafted this division proposal for Germany .

The US and British zones was decided on military planning grounds. With UK in the north and Germany in the south. And Churchill came up with a proposal similar to Roosevelt’s except it put the border between the two northern zones much further to the west (thus getting support by Stalin). Respecting the historical boundaries of the German states. Whereas Roosevelt had drawn a straight line through the Rhineland, Hesse and north of Bavaria.

Stalin did not agree on dividing Germany. The Committee on Dismemberment of Germany established at Yalta, was torpedoed by Gusev the USSR representative (ref Stalin's Unwanted Child: The Soviet Union, the German Question). Stalin's view was that if divided, by force, Germany would inevitably want to unite.

As a player of UK, France, US you should be able to go with the fragmentation vision of Germany. Constrained by realities of the Potsdam occupation zones, but in line with these earlier ideas (including Churchill's idea of a “Danubian Confederation”, comprised of the southern German states, Austria and Hungary).

The UK would thus be given the options to:

• Reunite Germany (that potentially would end up as West Germany depending on the actions of others)
• Form Bizonia (Trizonia). I.e. West Germany (if US agree)
• Release a North German state

The UK would decide for it's Austrian zone, to

• Reunite Austria
• Form Bizonia with the US zone.

The US would thus be given the options to:

• Reunite Germany (that potentially would end up as West Germany depending on the actions of others)
• Form Bizonia (Trizonia). I.e. West Germany (if the UK agree)
• Release a South German state

The US would decide for it's Austrian zone, to

• Reunite Austria
• Form part of a South German state.

The Soviet would thus be given the options to:

• Reunite Germany (that potentially would end up as West Germany depending on the actions of others)
• Release a East German state

The Soviet would decide for it's Austrian zone, to

• Reunite Austria (that potentially would end up as democratic Austria depending on the actions of others). If the others decide on South Germany, Austria may become communist.

The French would be given the options to:

• Reunite Germany (that potentially would end up as West Germany depending on the actions of others)
• Form Bizonia (Trizonia). I.e. West Germany (if the UK and US agree)
• Propose to annex the Rhine land (giving up ares to the east to the US decision) and for a International Rhine zone (if the UK and US agree on the dividing Germany policy)

The French would decide for it's Austrian zone, to

• Reunite Austria
• Form part of a South German state.

Every thing would be driven by event as the faith of Germany is inevitable. The player would be given the option to delay deciding but only 2 times.

It is possible to block decisions of others - i.e all must agree for a reunified Germany or Austria. Division takes presence with the excretion of the French annexation of the Rhine land - which requires US to decided for a South German state.

[simsulla]

For the french it would be version of an unhinged Monnet Plan. But in the French zone only. Remember, the prerequisite for this alt history, is that the allies don't get along on what to do with Germany. The Monnet plan mostly concerned the Ruhr. But that was part of the British zone. I.e. not under direct french control. They did however want special treatment of Germany-west of the Rhine. And Roosevelts initial idea supported that. "The then French government originally wanted to leave the possibility of annexing further areas of the Left Rhine after the conversion of Saarland into a protectorate."(from wikipedia) ". The Monnet plan

The French would give up occupied areas east of the Rhine to the new South German state, and put the rest under direct French administration.

[James9883]

Could you add an option for a UK player to give some land to the Netherlands? (if this seems feasible to you) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_annexation_of_German_territory_after_World_War_II

[Liegnitz]

@James9883 that should only happen if Germany somehow would not lose all the territory east of the Oder-Neiße, since 10 millions refugees from there had to move to the West and therefore the allies prohibited annexations as well as the expulsion of Germans from Alsace;

@simsulla how would South Germany look like? would it include hungary or south tyrol? and according to trizonia would that include terrytories that are polish at the start of the mod eg. pommerania?

btw. more gameplay options and less railroading = more fun :D

[arandomperson5000]

Would new tags have to be created for both the North and South German states, if so what will the new two countries be called?

Also I think France should be given an option of releasing the Rhineland as a puppet state if the player doesn't want to directly annex German land west of the Rhine and as in October 1923 the Rhenish Republic was proclaimed at Aachen however this unrecognized state was short lived as it was dissolved almost a year later. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhenish_Republic

[simsulla]

@James9883 in this alt-history scenario the UK would be the deciding power (i.e. the one controlling the territory) - and the recipient of ethnically cleansed Germans. Why would a UK player give the Dutch (a vic2 greater power) these territories?

@Liegnitz, no, the Donau thingy,was Churchills idea. Roosevelt outlined is the underpinning idea of a different US policy (in contrast to what they did in reality -> bizonia -> trizonia) - with some practicality adding parts of Austria, depending on if the allies agrees on Austria or not.

@arandomperson5000 IAR would be retired. SGF and NGF from vanilla would be introduced. NGF with some different flag. The French was the one who resisted "trizonia" the most, and instead wanted a split-up Germany. So, yes, maybe a Rheinland-Pfalz is a more likely scenario than direct french annexation. But I don't think the UK would give up its parts west of the Rhine to France.

EDIT: Churchill was the one sticking to historic borders of the German länder, in contrast to Roosevelt who draw a line along the Rhine. Neither of them were around 1946 - but their mindset where - now constrained by the realities of occupation. A question is what would happen to Württemberg-Hohenzollern and Baden (french occupied)? In the proposed scenario, France would give them to the South German (US dominated ) state in exchange for "breaking up Germany" - a decision ultimately in the hands of the US.

[simsulla]

Already 1946 there where elections in the german states (landtagswahl) in the Soviet zone and in the US zone (Hessen, Bayern). To my limited understanding, the elections where manipulated by eligibility (excluding german nationalists, forcing Communist/Socialist unification in the SBZ), but once performed relatively free. In the reminder of states elections where held in 1947.

Bizonia was formed 1 Jan 1947. Already in Oct 1946 minister-presidents of the US, UK zones discussed cooperation.

[arandomperson5000]

The flags of East Germany will have to be changed if a North and south German dates are added in as the flags are the exact same flags of the South German Federation in vanilla Victoria 2. Also if IAR is retired which tag will take its place in the events about the International Authority for the Ruhr.

[arandomperson5000]

On the change primary culture decisions for the UN mandates, I'm a little bit confused on how to approach the German Occupation Zones should I edit the decisions to include the new tags or the current tags used ingame.

[simsulla]

Use the new tags..

trigger = {
  OR = { tag = NGF tag = SGF... }
  NOT = { government = provisional_government }
  NOT = { primary_culture = german }
}

then change the primary culture.