search

sinara-hw / sinara

Sayma AMC/RTM issue tracker
Other
42 stars 7 forks source link

v0.1 physicst shopping list #21

Closed jbqubit closed 7 years ago

jbqubit commented 8 years ago

The hardware development contract funds two rounds of prototype hardware. Each prototype round will generate two copies of the prototype hardware consisting of the following parts. The list reflects the new organization of the Sayma analog front end with 4 mezzanine boards, each supporting 2 DAC channels and 2 ADC channels.

Metlino-Sayma Prototype Board Set 1 metlino_motherboard 1 metlino_clk 2 sayma_motherboard 2 sayma_clk 8 sayma_analog_mezzanine

Full Metlino-Sayma prototype hardware will be distributed as follows.

(A) The additional cost of two additional development systems will be paid directly (eg credit card) to the firm responsible for printing-stuffing the contract-funded prototype hardware (eg Creotech).

jordens commented 8 years ago

@jbqubit It's unclear what the "issue" is and who is supposed to act and what should be done. If there is no issue, close this.

jbqubit commented 8 years ago

Tasks:

dhslichter commented 8 years ago

Also should specify the types of mezzanine cards to be included, since there will be at least 2 designs (direct input/output and up/downconverting out/input), if not more.

jmizrahi commented 8 years ago

@gkasprow could you provide a list of all the commercial components necessary to run the full system? I would like to go ahead and order all the necessary microTCA hardware.

gkasprow commented 8 years ago
jmizrahi commented 8 years ago

@gkasprow Thanks! I assume the 1000W would be necessary for a fully populated full size crate?

jbqubit commented 8 years ago

Notes from discussion on 10/21 follow.

When operating Sayma ARM+RTM on benchtop use the following.

Chassis:

gkasprow commented 8 years ago

When operating Sayma ARM+RTM on benchtop use the following.

  • communication with Core Device (MCH)
    • AMC backplane Port 4 uses transceivers to communicate with Core Device
    • a SATA connector on the AMC backplane is also connected to Port 4 (passive)
    • in stand-alone configuration use a to SATA to SFP adapter to connect ARTIQ Master with board
    • no change in gateware is needed
  • power with +12V ATX power supply (common in PCs)

Yes

Chassis:

don't know the pn yet

NATIVE-LLRFR9BP Low-Level-RF-Backplane (Add-On for NATIVE-R9): DESY design providing Zone 1 RF connections (between 12uRTMs and 3 eRTMs) as well as Zone 2 power connections (between 12uRTMs and 2 rear PMs) and Zone 2 LVDS connections (between 12uRTMs and NAT-MCH-RTM-FPGA).

Delivered as integrated part of NATIVE-R9.

List price is 1600 Euro.

gkasprow commented 8 years ago

Let me finish the power estimation.

For 12 slots this may be necessary

jbqubit commented 8 years ago

http://mtca.desy.de/sites/site_mtca/content/e172206/e205636/e212584/e248086/uRFB_concept_Datasheet_19.12.2014_eng.pdf

jmizrahi commented 8 years ago

I received this quote from NAT for the microTCA chassis, RF backplane, power supply, and MCH. Is this the same set of hardware that everyone else intends to use with these boards? Do the rest of you already have a microTCA chassis with the necessary MCH and RF backplane? They quoted a 6-8 week leadtime. @jbqubit @jordens @dhslichter @hartytp

@gkasprow they added NAT-MCH-M4 as an alternative, but this is unnecessary, correct? Can you confirm that what they quoted me is the correct hardware set and the minimal hardware set (as the RF backplane does not appear to be available for smaller chassis's?) Given the price tag, I'd like to be 100% sure that I don't accidentally purchase incompatible hardware.

hartytp commented 8 years ago

@jbqubit Our process for approving new suppliers is a bit torturous, so I'd like to start adding the supplier (Creotech?) for the Sayma/Metliono hardware now. Who is the contact for this?

gkasprow commented 8 years ago

The production of prototype series will be done by Technosystem (http://technosystem.pl/#) At the moment it cannot be at Creotech due to formal restriction at the WUT (conflict of interests).

hartytp commented 8 years ago

@gkasprow When we order hardware, will we place the order with Technosystem or WUT?

gkasprow commented 8 years ago

You can do it via WUT but then 30% charge will be applied. So it depends on you:) WUT will anyway subcontract HW production to Technosystem

hartytp commented 8 years ago

Okay, noted. Is there anyone in particular I should contact at Technosystem about this?

hartytp commented 7 years ago

@jbqubit @gkasprow

These factors will influence how much hardware we buy in this round.

gkasprow commented 7 years ago

@jbqubit, @hartytp

I've just got initial offers from the assembly house: Sayma AMC for 2 pieces: 4k$/piece. Metlino price would be very similar. obraz Sayma AMC for 10 pieces: 3.3k$/piece obraz

Sayma RTM for 2 pieces: 3k $/piece obraz

Sayma RTM for 10 pieces: 2.36k$/piece obraz

These are just components, PCB and assembly prices, there will be some man work added to run the production test.

jbqubit commented 7 years ago

@gkasprow here's my attempt at distilling this down to a concise list. I'm unclear on exactly which filler part to use for empty slots (mid-size/full-size). Are the fillers for the RTM and AMC side the same? What about filling unused RTM side slots?

Description Vendor Part Number Quantity Comment
crate NAT NATIVE-R9 1
RF backplane for R9 NAT NATIVE-LLRFR9BP 1
MCH Tongue 1 NAT NAT-MCH-Base12-GBE-FP0D 1
MCH Tongue 2 adapter ? ? 1 to be designed by WUT
PSU module 1 kW NAT NAT-PM-AC1000 1 power option 1
PSU module 1 kW Schroff 11098-416 1 power option 2 Greg hasn't tested this
filler module for empty AMC slots Schroff ? 10
filler module for empty RTM slots Schroff ? 10
filler module for empty PSU slot Schroff ? 1
filler module for empty MCH slot Schroff ? 1
hartytp commented 7 years ago

Minimal parts list required to get the Metlino/Sayma system working in a uTCA.4 rack, all from NAT:

NAT PN description comment
NATIVE-R9 Rack This is the only rack which currently supports a RF backplane. RF BPs are planned for more racks in future (work not funded/started yet).
NAT-PM-AC1000 1kW PSU Cheaper, lower power-rating PSUs are also available, with similar specs. However, the price difference isn't that great.
NATIVE-LLRF RF BP Needed to power RTMs and optionally used to distribute clocks.
NAT-MCH-Base12-GbE MCH It is mechanical support for Metlino, it also delivers power. It regulates temperature inside the crate, enables power supplies and manages power distribution. Some day we will make own, simplified version.
NAT-MCH-FP0D Double width front-panel for NAT-MCH-Base12-GbE
NAMC-Filler FS-FP1D Double-width AMC filler + front-panel Needed for proper air flow in the rack. Empty crate needs 6 of them (4 PM + 2 MCH) With one PM and MCH we need 4
NAMC-Filler FS-RP1D Double-width RTM filler + front-panel (for unused MCH + PMs) 5 in our case assuming that we we only eRTM15 and no power module
NAMC-Filler MS-FP1D Single-width AMC filler + front-panel 12 needed for an empty rack
NAMC-Filler MS-RP1D Single-width RTM filler + front-panel 12 needed for empty rack

12 NAMC-MS-FP1D come for free with the rack.

This assumes that @gkasprow will make a simple tongue 2 board to replace the NAT-MCH-CLK-PHYS part (which we would otherwise use as a ~1k USD spacer).

I already did it. obraz

NB on @jmizrahi quote above:

@gkasprow please can you confirm that the above is correct?

hartytp commented 7 years ago

@jbqubit you beat me to it!

hartytp commented 7 years ago

@gkasprow Thank you for doing that!

gkasprow commented 7 years ago

@jmizrahi Confirmed that:

jbqubit commented 7 years ago

Some refinements of @hartytp list.

image

gkasprow commented 7 years ago

There is an issue with front panels.

They are manufactured (milling, printing) by Elma who has 8..12 weeks lead time. Schroff has similar lead time. Last time I waited even more because they had some material shortages.

So there is very little chance that they will be delivered with first revision of the PCBs.

I couldn’t design and order them before layout was finished. Just a few days ago additional connectors were added to Sayma.

jbqubit commented 7 years ago

Lack of front panel isn't a problem for v0.1 testing. Please ship PCB's with appropriately sized standoffs and screws to hold them together.

sbouhabib commented 7 years ago

@gkasprow i think there was a company that did them in 4 weeks, they are not nice ones with emblems and stuff just the metal, Ill try to check tomorrow

dhslichter commented 7 years ago

What about Front Panel Express/Schaeffer AG? They'll turn custom panels around in a week, with holes, legend, etc.

http://www.schaeffer-ag.de/en/

gkasprow commented 7 years ago

This is not standard front panel cut in a piece of aluminium sheet. It is formed bezel in which holes and slots are machined.

jmizrahi commented 7 years ago

@gkasprow if blank front panels are a stock part, and the long lead time is for machining and printing, why couldn't we buy the blank ones and send them elsewhere for the machining and printing?

jbqubit commented 7 years ago

@jasonamini pointed out that there are some additional parts users should buy to prepare for testing/using a Sinara system with DRTIO (SFP fiber-based). I've tested these with ARTIQ DRTIOlite (circa summer 2016).

(*) Unfortunately, fs.com no longer stocks the ZyXEL parts and it looks like they're in short supply from other distributors. DRTIO relies on use of bi-chromatic SFP transceivers with the same constraints as White Rabbit. See ohwr.org for a list of White Rabbit compatible SFP modules. @sbourdeauducq What transceivers are you using for DRTIO testing?

@jasonamini, @jmizrahi I have plenty of ZyXEL transceivers and patch cables so don't ordey any for UMD. Do order your own NetGear switch.

sbourdeauducq commented 7 years ago

I'm currently using a pair of generic 1000BASE-BX SFPs from fs.com (1490nm/1310nm) and they do what they are supposed to do, but they are limited to 1G. We plan to have a higher data rate for the phaser-based designs, so I have also tried similar 10G SFPs but they are acting up for yet unknown reasons. Our next step is to get the DRTIO phaser to work with a passive SFP copper cable (http://www.fs.com/products/36648.html) between two KC705s, then figure out what the heck is wrong with the 10G SFPs.

jbqubit commented 7 years ago

Thank you for the update @sbourdeauducq. I got an email from fs.com indicating what generic SFP is supposed to be compatible with the ZyXEL SFP. 

#37930  Customized 1000BASE-BX BiDi SFP 1310nm-TX/1490nm-RX 10km Transceiver
Compatible Brands:ZyXEL US$8.82 1294 pcs in stock

#37940  Customized 1000BASE-BX BiDi SFP 1490nm-TX/1310nm-RX 10km Transceiver
Compatible Brands:ZyXEL US$11.76    814 pcs in stock
sbourdeauducq commented 7 years ago

AFAIK this "compatibility" is mostly EEPROM programming, which doesn't matter in our case since ARTIQ does not check that a SFP of an approved brand is connected and completely ignores that EEPROM.

jbqubit commented 7 years ago

I'm closing this Issue as this looks resolved.