Implement a way to represent classical official languages, with an actual gameplay impact.
Like I have a district with a large ethnic minority, could we make autonomous regions for them or something maybe as the future foundation for conquering a neighboring region with a similar ethnic makeup
Pirosmani99 — Today at 15:52
On these lines it should also be possible that the limited freedom granted will just make nationalist agitation stronger, as with Lombardy-Venetia
Luk Zloty — Today at 16:01
Ok but what is the gameplay effect of having freakin' latin as an official state language? People used German anyway (in more official situations) or local language (in day-to-day communication)
Comrade Dispenser — Today at 16:02
It would effectively have as much effect on your country/culture as having a different court language in CK3 does
(very little, mostly a prestige and perceptions thing)
Pirosmani99 — Today at 16:02
it was used by the hungarian lesser nobles as a grievance to rally nationalism
but it’s a complicated thing to address
Luk Zloty — Today at 16:03
court language is somewhat important to diplomatic relations and contacts between rulers (know the same language = likes each other a little bit more)
I don't see how that could be translated into victorian times
Pirosmani99 — Today at 16:03
the replacement of latin with hungarian meant that practically the only people who could take up official posts were local minor nobles because no one else spoke hungarian
Comrade Dispenser — Today at 16:03
Maybe having Latin as an official language could give a small bonus to relations with romance language countries?
Austria-Hungary in a slightly better position to woo Romania and Italy than the other German states
Pirosmani99 — Today at 16:04
I think the use of Latin did have a small effect in boosting Romanian peasants’ loyalty to the crown which helped counterbalance Hungarian nobles’ power for a while (or was perceived to possibly have this effect)
So yeah that last point could be valid
And using Latin also means a more multiethnic bureaucracy is possible since everyone rich enough to attend school was taught academic Latin to a similar level. It was treated as kind of a universal Christian language in the West
Comrade Dispenser — Today at 16:08
Maybe having a language different from your primary pop's language annoys your primary pop's but increases acceptance for non-primaries
Or a lack of officially declared state language
I still think Austria getting a slight bonus to diplomacy to romance language speaking countries with Latin as an official language would be neat
Even if it's tiny
It could work the same way for the Vatican
Doesn't quite cancel out the fact that Latin is not Romanian or Italian or French of Spanish. But they're closer than German
Naturally gives Austria an edge there as well as giving the Pope a stronger sway on Mediterranean Catholic Europe
Comrade Dispenser — Today at 16:28
Dunno if that's the best idea or not tbh but maybe it could at least prime the AI to think "I should consider these nations geopolitical interests" without needing as much scripting work to encourage historical outcome
Simsonbaaisonator — Today at 16:28
Wouldn't Latin as an official language also limit members of your bureaucracy to the highly educated?
Comrade Dispenser — Today at 16:28
That's a good point
I think it would make sense
Simsonbaaisonator — Today at 16:29
It would be a method of indirect oppression that way
Don't allow the population groups you don't want to give power to learn Latin...
Comrade Dispenser — Today at 16:29
Though also like I said
Comrade Dispenser — Today at 16:30
If everyone has to learn the "legalese" it does make it a slightly more open playing field
(assuming equal opportunity access to education at least)
Simsonbaaisonator — Today at 16:30
Yeah, in theory.
Comrade Dispenser — Today at 16:30
In theory
Simsonbaaisonator — Today at 16:30
I imagine that in practice it was used as a way of filtering out "commoners"
Comrade Dispenser — Today at 16:31
The "equal opportunity access to education" is probably the part that throws a wrench in that theory
Simsonbaaisonator — Today at 16:31
If you ran a country that had an arcane official language and equal access to education then I suppose you'd have a somewhat level playing field
Comrade Dispenser — Today at 16:32
Could be a choice for the United States of Austria Hungary reform path
Simsonbaaisonator — Today at 16:32
Although the people who were under more economic pressure to make a living would probably still pick more immediately practical skills unless there was some kind of social security
The classic long-game in authoritarianism includes skewing access to education in subtle ways
"Of course you can learn Latin... but shouldn't you be doing engineering to feed your family?"
Comrade Dispenser — Today at 16:33
Finally, authoritarian imperial rule can be modeled in Imperator's engine 😆
Simsonbaaisonator — Today at 16:38
@Pirosmani99 was there a similar thing with the use of legal language in China?
Comrade Dispenser — Today at 16:49
Also this is important to note too, I think I overlooked this comment initially
Speaking of access to education and such affecting the social makeup of the bureaucracy
Pirosmani99 — Today at 16:57
AJP Taylor argues it was more about reducing the power of some sections of upper aristocracy (Magyars) in favour of lesser aristocracy from cities elsewhere in the empire who’d be more loyal (commoners would be excluded either way)
Pirosmani99 — Today at 17:00
Yes - written language was classical Chinese and spoken language among central bureaucracy was Nanjing Mandarin dialect
Implement a way to represent classical official languages, with an actual gameplay impact.
Like I have a district with a large ethnic minority, could we make autonomous regions for them or something maybe as the future foundation for conquering a neighboring region with a similar ethnic makeup Pirosmani99 — Today at 15:52 On these lines it should also be possible that the limited freedom granted will just make nationalist agitation stronger, as with Lombardy-Venetia Luk Zloty — Today at 16:01 Ok but what is the gameplay effect of having freakin' latin as an official state language? People used German anyway (in more official situations) or local language (in day-to-day communication) Comrade Dispenser — Today at 16:02 It would effectively have as much effect on your country/culture as having a different court language in CK3 does (very little, mostly a prestige and perceptions thing) Pirosmani99 — Today at 16:02 it was used by the hungarian lesser nobles as a grievance to rally nationalism but it’s a complicated thing to address Luk Zloty — Today at 16:03 court language is somewhat important to diplomatic relations and contacts between rulers (know the same language = likes each other a little bit more) I don't see how that could be translated into victorian times Pirosmani99 — Today at 16:03 the replacement of latin with hungarian meant that practically the only people who could take up official posts were local minor nobles because no one else spoke hungarian Comrade Dispenser — Today at 16:03 Maybe having Latin as an official language could give a small bonus to relations with romance language countries? Austria-Hungary in a slightly better position to woo Romania and Italy than the other German states Pirosmani99 — Today at 16:04 I think the use of Latin did have a small effect in boosting Romanian peasants’ loyalty to the crown which helped counterbalance Hungarian nobles’ power for a while (or was perceived to possibly have this effect) So yeah that last point could be valid And using Latin also means a more multiethnic bureaucracy is possible since everyone rich enough to attend school was taught academic Latin to a similar level. It was treated as kind of a universal Christian language in the West Comrade Dispenser — Today at 16:08 Maybe having a language different from your primary pop's language annoys your primary pop's but increases acceptance for non-primaries Or a lack of officially declared state language I still think Austria getting a slight bonus to diplomacy to romance language speaking countries with Latin as an official language would be neat Even if it's tiny It could work the same way for the Vatican Doesn't quite cancel out the fact that Latin is not Romanian or Italian or French of Spanish. But they're closer than German Naturally gives Austria an edge there as well as giving the Pope a stronger sway on Mediterranean Catholic Europe Comrade Dispenser — Today at 16:28 Dunno if that's the best idea or not tbh but maybe it could at least prime the AI to think "I should consider these nations geopolitical interests" without needing as much scripting work to encourage historical outcome Simsonbaaisonator — Today at 16:28 Wouldn't Latin as an official language also limit members of your bureaucracy to the highly educated? Comrade Dispenser — Today at 16:28 That's a good point I think it would make sense Simsonbaaisonator — Today at 16:29 It would be a method of indirect oppression that way Don't allow the population groups you don't want to give power to learn Latin... Comrade Dispenser — Today at 16:29 Though also like I said Comrade Dispenser — Today at 16:30 If everyone has to learn the "legalese" it does make it a slightly more open playing field (assuming equal opportunity access to education at least) Simsonbaaisonator — Today at 16:30 Yeah, in theory. Comrade Dispenser — Today at 16:30 In theory Simsonbaaisonator — Today at 16:30 I imagine that in practice it was used as a way of filtering out "commoners" Comrade Dispenser — Today at 16:31 The "equal opportunity access to education" is probably the part that throws a wrench in that theory Simsonbaaisonator — Today at 16:31 If you ran a country that had an arcane official language and equal access to education then I suppose you'd have a somewhat level playing field Comrade Dispenser — Today at 16:32 Could be a choice for the United States of Austria Hungary reform path Simsonbaaisonator — Today at 16:32 Although the people who were under more economic pressure to make a living would probably still pick more immediately practical skills unless there was some kind of social security The classic long-game in authoritarianism includes skewing access to education in subtle ways "Of course you can learn Latin... but shouldn't you be doing engineering to feed your family?" Comrade Dispenser — Today at 16:33 Finally, authoritarian imperial rule can be modeled in Imperator's engine 😆 Simsonbaaisonator — Today at 16:38 @Pirosmani99 was there a similar thing with the use of legal language in China? Comrade Dispenser — Today at 16:49 Also this is important to note too, I think I overlooked this comment initially Speaking of access to education and such affecting the social makeup of the bureaucracy Pirosmani99 — Today at 16:57 AJP Taylor argues it was more about reducing the power of some sections of upper aristocracy (Magyars) in favour of lesser aristocracy from cities elsewhere in the empire who’d be more loyal (commoners would be excluded either way) Pirosmani99 — Today at 17:00 Yes - written language was classical Chinese and spoken language among central bureaucracy was Nanjing Mandarin dialect